Rate The Retribution Paladin Above You!

[Swampmoose]

So you'd rather pad the meters and possibly let people die instead of playing your class like it's meant to be played and heal, letting the other dps you have pick up the slack? Do you think Blizz made AoW and Sheath the way they are just for fun? You're a hybrid and you're supposed to throw out the occasional heal, it's part of being a hybrid. I do it on my pally, I did it on my sham when I raided on him, I do it on my druid too. And when you do have to throw out that occasional FoL, why wouldn't you want it to be 12% stronger, and then have the sheath proc if it's a crit to ALSO be 12% stronger? The extremely marginal dps increase you actually get from DI is next to useless, and the extra 250 mana is enough for 2 offensive spells and 0 heals. I go through dreamwalker switching seals all the time and throwing out bunches of FoL's even the occasional holy light (because hey, it makes the fight go faster which is what I'm there for) and I still don't run out of mana.

In summary:
You're a hybrid, you should play like one.

You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say you should let people die. I said before but it seems you keep missing it...it's ok to cast an occasional heal if things get rough but it's not ok to cast one just because you can. Despite what you think, your job is to DPS as retribution, not heal. It isn't called padding the meters, it is called doing your job. Just as if you are tanking, tanking is your job and if you are healing, healing is your job. Just because you could use abilities you have to do other things that you aren't specced for, doesn't mean you have to be using them frequently to be effectively playing your class. The argument is where talent points are best spent and you have turned it into, I like to let people die to pad meters. It just sounds like your raid has issues if you feel you are supposed to be constantly assisting with healing, not to mention you are seal swapping all the time on Dreamwalker which makes it hard for me to take you serious anymore.

[Ronark]

The argument is where talent points are best spent

In either argument, the effect is minimal, so long as you have SotP and AM in the build.

[Kisko]

One awful ret named Iiris <Paragon> casts 0 (zero) FoLs during HLK25.

He is also happen to be top dps on Valks by a large margin (as much as 2x from other awful Paragon raiders).

Can we put this to rest already? If you like Healing Light go ahead and spec it, but let others do their choice as they see fit. Thank you.

[Brael]

Can we put this to rest already? If you like Healing Light go ahead and spec it, but let others do their choice as they see fit. Thank you.

Seconded.

[Myysticc]

Back on topic.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...c&r=Ravencrest

[Retributed]

ot to mention you are seal swapping all the time on Dreamwalker which makes it hard for me to take you serious anymore.

This stuck out to me quite a bit and I fully agree with the statement.

Hybrid classes aren't there to do a bit of everything. Each spec is designated to specific roles in the raid. Prot tanks, Holy heals, Ret does damage. Yes as Ret we have the ability to throw out an instant FoL. We could also use that proc to throw out an Exorcism to do more damage to something to kill it faster. Since the quote is referring to Dreamwalker...seal swapping and sounds like you're wasting healing and doing less damage to kill stuff. Let your healers gathering the stacks do that work. Your role is to kill the things that will prevent them from efficiently healing the dragon. If you're wasting time trying to help heal, you're not doing what you're there for and should probably be removed from the raid. You take 3 seconds to toss a few heals, and a Blazing Skeleton can kill off a tank, or Archmage can make some mana users OOM, or Suppressors can make incoming heals less effective.

tl;dr

Know your role, and do what is asked of you.

Though in your defense, I do toss out FoL spamming during air phase of BQL because well...I can't do anything else. There's far and few situations like that.

[Fredzilla]

I fail to see any problem at all with healing on dream. It makes the fight go faster and I do it after the mobs on my side are dead. I know my priorities, but I'm not just going to sit there and twiddle my thumbs when there's nothing for me to beat on, that's a stupid waste of time. As far as the seal swapping goes, I'll use SoC when shit like suppressors are out, throw some heals between adds, swap to wisdom if I get low on mana from my heals, then go back to killing things. Where's the problem there, because I must be missing it. Like I said before, there is a reason blizzard gives us these talents, we have 2 mandatory ones in our own tree, healing light just makes them both better.

@Myysticc - All looks fine to me.

[Eladrin]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ood&cn=Eladrin

with SM out of the question before cata (Officer and GM in line before me and the officer only has 10 shards) it looks like this might be closing in on my best pieces, only things I could possibly see getting is the Heroic waist of the one I have and something for feet (not sure what). I am getting close to progression capped since we are probably not going to get more than 8/12 HM's in 25 and maybe 11/12 in 10. Although HM tokens are still possible from what we down on HM, but there are quite a few in line before I ever touch one most likely.

[Kisko]

Back on topic.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...c&r=Ravencrest

Everything looks good, your weapon dictates your choices on reaching the caps and I doubt it can be done better.
You can use some upgrades like that wonderful leather wrist from Hali and new boots either from Hali or from Marrow, but I'm sure you know it and working on it.

Probably the only quirk I can find is that you don't have JC and it's still top dps profession for us, but your profs are very solid, not going to downrate for it.
You specced 5/5 into DI, though UF can be a dps increase at BQL. But then again, you are Human and it's an easy content no one cares about, not going to downrate for it either.

10/10, good job

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ood&cn=Eladrin

with SM out of the question before cata (Officer and GM in line before me and the officer only has 10 shards) it looks like this might be closing in on my best pieces, only things I could possibly see getting is the Heroic waist of the one I have and something for feet (not sure what). I am getting close to progression capped since we are probably not going to get more than 8/12 HM's in 25 and maybe 11/12 in 10. Although HM tokens are still possible from what we down on HM, but there are quite a few in line before I ever touch one most likely.

- Under the hit cap, unless you want to constantly bother RL with your group number, I recommend capping it with Icewalker enchant, it is +10 dps increase
- BS instead of Enchanting would be a +30 dps or so for you

Can use a lot of upgrades:
- Your 2nd trinket can be upgraded to normal DV/STS or heroic WFS/DV/STS
- Crafted gear tends to be underbudgeted with bad socket colors, Marrow or LDW boots will be much better (pref heroic ofc)
- Try to snag BiS agi cloak when no one else needs it
- Also, H:LDW at 30% isn't really that hard boss even for casual groups/guilds, push your RL to try 9/12hm (neck, boots)

Overall: 9/10

[Retributed]

I fail to see any problem at all with healing on dream. It makes the fight go faster and I do it after the mobs on my side are dead. I know my priorities, but I'm not just going to sit there and twiddle my thumbs when there's nothing for me to beat on, that's a stupid waste of time. As far as the seal swapping goes, I'll use SoC when shit like suppressors are out, throw some heals between adds, swap to wisdom if I get low on mana from my heals, then go back to killing things. Where's the problem there, because I must be missing it. Like I said before, there is a reason blizzard gives us these talents, we have 2 mandatory ones in our own tree, healing light just makes them both better.

@Myysticc - All looks fine to me.

You could always try running to the other side of the dragon to help kill adds if your side is clear. You also wouldn't have mana problems if you weren't wasting mana seal swapping. I presume you use Judgement of Wisdom, which returns a nice chunk of mana every time, so I don't see how Judgement + Divine Plea isn't sufficient enough if you stop seal swapping. Maybe you need to pick up the intellect talent in Holy tree for a bigger mana pool?

And on Dreamwalker specifically...the weak and far and few heals you're throwing on the dragon aren't going to contribute to much. If your heals as Ret are what's making the difference in wiping on the fight or not, then your healers aren't doing what they are there for. Rule sort of applies to any fight. If your heals are what is saving the raid from a wipe, then you're clearly carrying someone who needs to learn their class. If you're just standing around with nothing to do, yes top someone off...but with how fights are designed, how often will that really happen to you? Let's go through the T10 bosses and see...

Marrowgar: No break time. Burn him down.
Deathwhisper: Regular, no. Heroic..still no. You're either on boss or on adds.
Gunship: Maybe a 5-10 second breather after Mage is dead and adds haven't respawned
Saurfang: lol not getting into this one
Rotface: Unstable Explosion would be the only time, but not really necessary
Festergut: No
Putricide: No
Blood Princes: Reg mode, no. Heroic...only if you manage to get yourself thrown in a corner with 10+ moving debuff stacks
Bloodqueen: Air phase, since we can't attack her.
Dreamwalker: Listed reason above. Maybe toss a LoH on her near the end to speed things up ever so slightly
Sindragosa: If you toss out any heals at this point, your guild doesn't need to be doing this fight.
Lich King: Yeah...no.

[Elessa]

Marrowgar: No break time. Burn him down.
Deathwhisper: Regular, no. Heroic..still no. You're either on boss or on adds.
Gunship: Maybe a 5-10 second breather after Mage is dead and adds haven't respawned
Saurfang: lol not getting into this one
Rotface: Unstable Explosion would be the only time, but not really necessary
Festergut: No
Putricide: No
Blood Princes: Reg mode, no. Heroic...only if you manage to get yourself thrown in a corner with 10+ moving debuff stacks
Bloodqueen: Air phase, since we can't attack her.
Dreamwalker: Listed reason above. Maybe toss a LoH on her near the end to speed things up ever so slightly
Sindragosa: If you toss out any heals at this point, your guild doesn't need to be doing this fight.
Lich King: Yeah...no.

Okay, lets do this again.

Marrowgar: During bonestorm and if he's not in melee range.
Lady Deathwhisper: If you're capped on threat or if you are stopping dps to take another set of adds.
Gunship: Some of the time there's not gonna be any add up, but this fight is kind of irrelevant anyway.
Saurfang: You might wanna throw out an instant FoL on a mark that is low on HP, but you'd be losing a good chunk of damage to do so.
Rotface: I agree with you
Festergut: If you get fucked on spores and need to run to the ranged group. Will most likely only happen in 10-man.
Putricide: Only in 25-man if you get the orange color debuff, but you are needed to stack up on the green.
Blood Princes: If you get stuck somewhere with a few stacks, or if you're the only "healer" in range of the Kelseth tank (will only happen in 10-man when two healing I guess.)
Blood Queen: Air phase.
Dreamwalker: Anytime there's not an add up on your side, or close to your side.
Sindragosa: When resetting your stacks you won't be in range or LoS of the dragon for a few seconds, you may aswell throw out some heals.
Lich King: If one or two healers gets picked up by a Val'kyr you might need to heal, depending on how strong your DPS is on the Valk'kyrs and in the Frostmourne room.

All of this justifies picking up a 12% healing increase over 6% intellect. Things can go wrong, even with a perfect group. You can get fucked on Val'kyrs, Iceblocks, Unchained Magic, Spores, positioning after a defile, lag and DC's. If you really struggle with mana for some reason, take points out of Unyielding Faith. It's only useful for one boss and two mini-bosses in end game raiding.

[Nikoll]

U r wrong on so much there. There are many times where a instant fol on you is a damned good idea. If you aret doing that than your raid is either amazing and never fucks up, or you are bad.

[Deleted]

U r wrong on so much there. There are many times where a instant fol on you is a damned good idea. If you aret doing that than your raid is either amazing and never fucks up, or you are bad.

i see. care to give out any examples when that is a damned good idea?

[Swampmoose]

I fail to see any problem at all with healing on dream. It makes the fight go faster and I do it after the mobs on my side are dead. I know my priorities, but I'm not just going to sit there and twiddle my thumbs when there's nothing for me to beat on, that's a stupid waste of time. As far as the seal swapping goes, I'll use SoC when shit like suppressors are out, throw some heals between adds, swap to wisdom if I get low on mana from my heals, then go back to killing things. Where's the problem there, because I must be missing it. Like I said before, there is a reason blizzard gives us these talents, we have 2 mandatory ones in our own tree, healing light just makes them both better.

@Myysticc - All looks fine to me.

Now because you want to play the Hybrid and put up seal of wisdom, Blazing Skeletons are potentially getting off an extra Lay Waste tick meaning your healers now have to heal 20+ raiders because of the raid damage YOU caused by not doing what you are there to do. Or maybe your slow seal of wisdom dps causes a Banshee to get off a last minute aoe frost bolt putting up a slow, decreasing mana for your real healers. All the while if you are killing things faster your healers have less to worry about and THEY can cast heals on the boss, much bigger and more effective heals than your little flash of lights. You are doing everything BUT speeding up the fight.

Okay, lets do this again.

Marrowgar: During bonestorm and if he's not in melee range.
Lady Deathwhisper: If you're capped on threat or if you are stopping dps to take another set of adds.
Gunship: Some of the time there's not gonna be any add up, but this fight is kind of irrelevant anyway.
Saurfang: You might wanna throw out an instant FoL on a mark that is low on HP, but you'd be losing a good chunk of damage to do so.
Rotface: I agree with you
Festergut: If you get fucked on spores and need to run to the ranged group. Will most likely only happen in 10-man.
Putricide: Only in 25-man if you get the orange color debuff, but you are needed to stack up on the green.
Blood Princes: If you get stuck somewhere with a few stacks, or if you're the only "healer" in range of the Kelseth tank (will only happen in 10-man when two healing I guess.)
Blood Queen: Air phase.
Dreamwalker: Anytime there's not an add up on your side, or close to your side.
Sindragosa: When resetting your stacks you won't be in range or LoS of the dragon for a few seconds, you may aswell throw out some heals.
Lich King: If one or two healers gets picked up by a Val'kyr you might need to heal, depending on how strong your DPS is on the Valk'kyrs and in the Frostmourne room.

All of this justifies picking up a 12% healing increase over 6% intellect. Things can go wrong, even with a perfect group. You can get fucked on Val'kyrs, Iceblocks, Unchained Magic, Spores, positioning after a defile, lag and DC's. If you really struggle with mana for some reason, take points out of Unyielding Faith. It's only useful for one boss and two mini-bosses in end game raiding.

None of those are reasons to pick up an extra 12% healing over 6% intellect, they are just potential cases where a FoL might be useful.

I also want to mention, more intellect could mean you can hit a few extra divine storm procs before having to plea and if you are so worried about healing, check your logs next time you raid. Divine storm heals for close to 1.5 million over the raid, at least mine did. Flash of light might account for 50,000 over that raid. Another example where more int = more dps AND in this case = more healing.

[Fredzilla]

Please, please, PLEASE don't tell me how my raids go and how much trouble we may or may not have on it. I had one blazing on my side when we killed her this week, and our dps on either side has absolutely no trouble killing any of the adds, and we have about 6 people to interrupt on each side. So no, me using seal of wisdom so I can spam flash of light and holy light (which added up to 1 mil healing this week) IS speeding up the fight. Do not tell me otherwise when you have absolutely no idea what goes on in my raids.

As far as DI goes, I did not run out of mana once during ICC this week, on any boss, seal swapping on LK to kill valks and all, so that extra 250 did 0 for me. And for the other ret in my raid. And the dps you get from the miniscule amount of spell crit is pretty much negligible.

[Requital]

Back on topic.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...c&r=Ravencrest

Yes, Yes indeed back on topic!

But you apparently know what you have and what you should have, Haste vs Crit for yellows use your own judgement I'm not going to sim you for a possible 3-4 DPS difference. Get a 277 TaJ asap it sucks you don't have one

10/10 I can't deduct for RNG drop rates! I would suggest JC over BS but to each their own choices.

[Nikoll]

i see. care to give out any examples when that is a damned good idea?

You are low during a bonestorm. 2 ghosts blo up on u so u have about 2k left. You get blown by the green ooze away from the raid and are running back in. Etc. The extra 12% I still say won't mean life or death, but the heal itself can.

[Swampmoose]

Please, please, PLEASE don't tell me how my raids go and how much trouble we may or may not have on it. I had one blazing on my side when we killed her this week, and our dps on either side has absolutely no trouble killing any of the adds, and we have about 6 people to interrupt on each side. So no, me using seal of wisdom so I can spam flash of light and holy light (which added up to 1 mil healing this week) IS speeding up the fight. Do not tell me otherwise when you have absolutely no idea what goes on in my raids.

As far as DI goes, I did not run out of mana once during ICC this week, on any boss, seal swapping on LK to kill valks and all, so that extra 250 did 0 for me. And for the other ret in my raid. And the dps you get from the miniscule amount of spell crit is pretty much negligible.

Rofl if you are doing 1 million healing in your raid from FoL and Holy light you are a waste of a DPS spot. I don't even need to comment any further on this since you are clearly going out of your way to pretend to be a healer. Please post some logs, I'm curious to see what kind of DPS you are doing when healing that much.

[Fredzilla]

You're a bit dense aren't you? Tell me now, what else is there to do on Dreamwalker (where I accumulated said 1 mil healing) when there are no adds to kill? Hmmmm?

Stop acting like a know-it-all prick towards me because I actually play like a hybrid. Maybe you should go roll a mage or a rogue.

[Swampmoose]

You're a bit dense aren't you? Tell me now, what else is there to do on Dreamwalker (where I accumulated said 1 mil healing) when there are no adds to kill? Hmmmm?

Stop acting like a know-it-all prick towards me because I actually play like a hybrid. Maybe you should go roll a mage or a rogue.

Maybe you should reroll holy? Name calling? Sounds ban worthy to me.