1. #1801

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Skollvaldr
    maybe in your oppinion. i like to look at my overall performance in 25 as top priority and therefor glyph of sov is not an option.

    also: the noose is definately not bis, even with sov glyph. 277 coldwraith links is.
    bis 264 as stated in previous post. again here a very good link about bis gear http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t84213-r...s_lists_3_3_a/

    if your planning on holding out for a 277 then that different. but atm the noose is still an upgrade.

    coldwraith 277 is best if you can't bid on leather, otherwise Astrylian's Sutured Cinch is best

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tortheldrin&cn=Ryevin

  2. #1802

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryevin
    but atm the noose is still an upgrade.
    not for me
    ...just another dream within a dream...

  3. #1803

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Skollvaldr
    not for me
    If you get TAJ and drop your t10 gloves for Fleshrending; then yes. Noose would be a SUBSTANTIAL upgrade.

    Your gear is great; but your crit is rather low (obviously your AP is higher as compensation; but a higher crit would benefit you quite a bit).

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ht&cn=Telorith (for comparison; do keep in mind that I have TAJ so you gain 256 AP on me just from that).

    The thing you are forgetting about the SoV glyph is that you are losing the exorcism glyph in order to get it. Exorcism glyph is worth ~20-25dps depending on your gear. If you use 3 of the 10 expertise SoV provides then you are gaining at least 10 dps in swapping glyphs. It'd be a fairly substantial change to swap out the glyphs and use the vengeful noose (once you get TAJ).

    I'd actually very much like to get a conversation going via PMs or what not regarding DPS done. Comparing your paly and mine could prove to be an interesting discussion on the whole leather vs plate issue.

    AND just to add my 2 cents. Most guilds should be assigning groups to Valks on LK-25. Using SoC is great if they're all clumped up... but in most cases they end up being too spread out near the end of their lives in about half of the cases. Using SoC also severely limits your dps on LK. Overall, you'll do more damage with SoV (quite a bit more, actually). The only fights where SoC should be used over SoV (currently) are Dreamwalker, Gunship and Deathwhisper if you're on add duty. Situationally; you can swap to it for Valks, air phase of sindragosa and for extra cleave during DW if you're on boss in p1.


  4. #1804
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    If you do Valks correctly, if everyone in the raid stands where they're supposed to stand then you will not have a problem with Valks going off in seperate directions. The only time Valks should not be together is if you have warlocks assigned to stand off in a corner somewhere with a demonic teleport up as Valk bait.
    The group assigned to kill Valks is everyone. I personally don't think there's enough time between Valks and defiles to keep a 5 stack of SoV up on the Lich King. Excessive seal swapping is also bad for this encounter, considering how long it is. If your raid needs your SoV stacks ticking on the Lich King to get him to 40% in a timely manner there are larger problems at hand.

    But that's just my two cents.

  5. #1805

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    "Here's me!
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&cn=Telorith"

    I like it, I was just considering going with those leather boots myself. I'm issues with rawr, its telling me that my current boots are more dps but that doesnt make sense

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tortheldrin&cn=Ryevin

  6. #1806

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlyskilled
    Valks don't spread out. They choose a person and make a straight line towards the edge. They go in the path that gets them to the edge the quickest.

    If you do Valks correctly, if everyone in the raid stands where they're supposed to stand then you will not have a problem with Valks going off in seperate directions. The only time Valks should not be together is if you have warlocks assigned to stand off in a corner somewhere with a demonic teleport up as Valk bait.
    The group assigned to kill Valks is everyone. I personally don't think there's enough time between Valks and defiles to keep a 5 stack of SoV up on the Lich King. Excessive seal swapping is also bad for this encounter, considering how long it is. If your raid needs your SoV stacks ticking on the Lich King to get him to 40% in a timely manner there are larger problems at hand.

    But that's just my two cents.
    Oh, we use the same strat. And in some situations; you're right. The valks stay grouped. (I also am fully aware of how the Valk mechanic works. :P I've killed him too ya know. ) HOWEVER if someone is even REMOTELY off the stacked group, then after a few seconds of walking they could be spread enough away from the other valks such that they're no longer cleavable. Same applies to hunters and to valks coming down when defile comes out just before valks.

    Additionally; by groups I meant have certain melee assigned to each valk for the purposes of DPS and slows/stuns. If you're just having people randomly attack valks then I'd question how you're able to get to phase 3 if even one valk happens to head off at another angle. :P

    We have ~20 sec between valk packs come down to DPS LK... that is PLENTY of time to make SoV useful.

  7. #1807

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryevin
    Here's me!
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ht&cn=Telorith

    I like it, I was just considering going with those leather boots myself. I'm issues with rawr, its telling me that my current boots are more dps but that doesnt make sense
    Might be because you're already expertise capped with the glyph. You won't need the boots. Your gear overall is decent; you need TAJ so you can swap out that god awful cloak. ^_^ Then you could swap to the leather boots easily enough!

  8. #1808

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by EndGame
    Might be because you're already expertise capped with the glyph. You won't need the boots. Your gear overall is decent; you need TAJ so you can swap out that god awful cloak. ^_^ Then you could swap to the leather boots easily enough!
    even when I dropped the glyph I wasnt getting any extra dps. I plan on getting Taij. I have to see one drop first (bad luck so far I guess).

    That cloak fits in nicely right now with my stats. I plan to get the one you have if no agi classes need it or get the one off of rotface.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tortheldrin&cn=Ryevin

  9. #1809
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    I did edit out Valk mechanics right after I posted, I felt it was kind of snooty considering.

    We have a pretty good rotation for slows/stuns, I save my hammer for oh shit moments if a Valk does begin to wander due to positioning. We often just go by the marks that are thrown out on the Valks as the DPS order, it isn't really willy-nilly, but they don't live long enough for SoV to be better than SoC and I like the added utility of the cleave.

    I lean more towards Valk cleavage (lul) in this phase than putting in big numbers on Mister Menethil. Sure he could get to 40% a few seconds earlier but I prefer trying to ensure our raid members don't get flung into oblivion. Really just depends on what your raid is stronger at as a whole I guess.

  10. #1810

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    i agree 100%
    we have slowers and stunners assigned to each valk but everybody else aoes them down.
    if your raid knows how to position then they will spread at no more than 1-2°.

    but what i'm actually trying to say is that there ARE fights thar require to use something else than sov and me (and my guild) think it's better to perform at 95% on every fight than at 100% on the most but 70% at some (numbers pulled out of my a.. obviously, but i hope you get my point).
    and again: i'm not taling about dps or dmg done, i'm talking about doing what's needed in certain situations.
    ...just another dream within a dream...

  11. #1811
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I swap to SoC during Sindragosa's air phases and cleave the balls out of ice cubes, and swap out glyph of consecration on Putricide in favor or glyph of SoR for oozes.

    I think a lot of the fun of ICC has been testing different seals and figuring out what's best for which fight.

  12. #1812

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlyskilled
    Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I swap to SoC during Sindragosa's air phases and cleave the balls out of ice cubes, and swap out glyph of consecration on Putricide in favor or glyph of SoR for oozes.

    I think a lot of the fun of ICC has been testing different seals and figuring out what's best for which fight.
    That's the key for me... especially for something like valks. Seal swapping is so much easier to do than to try and just stick with one seal. In some cases (like Putricide) it's just easier (and MORE dps) to stick to SoV. But swapping to SoC as valks come down, throwing up HW to stun, then cleaving the crap out of them with SoC is amazing. Swap back to SoV as I run back to LK. In some cases; my stack didn't even drop.

    I'd never sink-hole myself into using one seal per fight; I am constantly switching so long as mana doesn't become an issue.

  13. #1813
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by EndGame
    That's the key for me... especially for something like valks. Seal swapping is so much easier to do than to try and just stick with one seal. In some cases (like Putricide) it's just easier (and MORE dps) to stick to SoV. But swapping to SoC as valks come down, throwing up HW to stun, then cleaving the crap out of them with SoC is amazing. Swap back to SoV as I run back to LK. In some cases; my stack didn't even drop.

    I'd never sink-hole myself into using one seal per fight; I am constantly switching so long as mana doesn't become an issue.
    i never switch seals on PP. i always use SoCorr. with t he right tactic (and dodging choking gas) i can keep my dps as high as 7k on the fight.

    but anyway...im still sort of interested in the dps increase of deathbringer's will trinket. think ill need it the next time it drops :P

  14. #1814
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    but anyway...im still sort of interested in the dps increase of deathbringer's will trinket. think ill need it the next time it drops :P
    grats you lost my respect!
    +20 dps (thats if the star align and give you the right proc)

  15. #1815
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    grats you lost my respect!
    +20 dps (thats if the star align and give you the right proc)
    as i read it correctly, ret paladins will get 3 certain buffs. haste, crit and strength. haste(with taiaj) and strength proc are good. crit is less good.

    when i put the data in rawr with my own paladin, it provides me with a dps increase close to 100 dps over greatness trinket. rawr has been wrong before, so it might turn out to be higher. but maybe i am wrong. at least i tried it then.

  16. #1816
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    as i read it correctly, ret paladins will get 3 certain buffs. haste, crit and strength. haste(with taiaj) and strength proc are good. crit is less good.

    when i put the data in rawr with my own paladin, it provides me with a dps increase close to 100 dps over greatness trinket. rawr has been wrong before, so it might turn out to be higher. but maybe i am wrong. at least i tried it then.
    i find the trinket unreliable because of that.. 3 proc of crit = sad panda
    haste is not bad but i think AP/str proc are better

    (joke for the respect part :P)

  17. #1817
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    i find the trinket unreliable because of that.. 3 proc of crit = sad panda
    haste is not bad but i think AP/str proc are better

    (joke for the respect part :P)
    ah joke? good thing you said so before i started to swing my banhammer ;D

    but anyway..i just want to have more haste without wasting 60 badges on herkuml trinket. its proven that such trinkets rarely work for ret paladins.

  18. #1818
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    ah joke? good thing you said so before i started to swing my banhammer ;D

    but anyway..i just want to have more haste without wasting 60 badges on herkuml trinket. its proven that such trinkets rarely work for ret paladins.
    more haste?
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50727 that would be perfect xD
    can i haz one 2? (at least the normal version, damn i love polearm!)

  19. #1819
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    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    more haste?
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50727 that would be perfect xD
    can i haz one 2? (at least the normal version, damn i love polearm!)
    ye im just trying to get a huge amount of haste and see how that goes, just for fun

  20. #1820

    Re: Rate The Ret Paladin Above You

    Quote Originally Posted by iktankniet
    ye im just trying to get a huge amount of haste and see how that goes, just for fun
    Go pug ToC and get DV. :P It's better than greatness and war totem!

    I'd take bloodfall; probably because no one was really wants it. (Our hunters and ferals want arp). Then bloodfall can hold me over until shards start a'droppin' more and I get shadowmourne. (12/50)

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