Changes i would like to see for retribution.

[Varius]

Just a little FYI, the reason the Stars paladins are lowish is because they are running a holy wrath rotation to keep all the adds stunned, they may not even be running their normal spec/character.

Could paladins do dps way back in the day? Sure, but pre 2.4 and 3.0 we needed to be put in the melee group with the enhance shammy, feral druid, fury warrior, and rogue and it wasnt even sure if it was better to prop up the ret pally's dps or to make the 2nd rogue's dps go through the roof.

I would like to see a couple changes to our cooldowns so we can either get a proper rotation or just so that we don't only have 1 GCD free every 20-30 seconds.

Only big dps change i would like to see is a way to apply a couple stacks of vengance/corruption every minute or 2, that would make changing targets not such a big deal.

[Ronark]

Just a little FYI, the reason the Stars paladins are lowish is because they are running a holy wrath rotation to keep all the adds stunned, they may not even be running their normal spec/character.

Could paladins do dps way back in the day? Sure, but pre 2.4 and 3.0 we needed to be put in the melee group with the enhance shammy, feral druid, fury warrior, and rogue and it wasnt even sure if it was better to prop up the ret pally's dps or to make the 2nd rogue's dps go through the roof.

I would like to see a couple changes to our cooldowns so we can either get a proper rotation or just so that we don't only have 1 GCD free every 20-30 seconds.

Only big dps change i would like to see is a way to apply a couple stacks of vengance/corruption every minute or 2, that would make changing targets not such a big deal.

EJ had math archives to show that a Ret Paladin benefited more from WF/LotP/Battle Shout more than a Rogue would.

I have proposed many Ideas in the past, but the best I think so far is to bring back Seal of the Crusader in a new spell: Zeal of the Crusade.


Zeal of the Crusader
3% of base mana
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of a crusader for 10 sec, increasing attack speed by 70%, but dealing 50% less damage with each attack.

Spell Details:
Duration 10 seconds
School Physical
Mechanic n/a
Dispel type n/a
Cost 3% of base mana
Range 0 yards (Self)
Cast time Instant
Cooldown 30 sec

[Whoopzz]

PvE we are fine other than the long ramp up time on SoV. PvP I think could be fixed with something as simple as a distance closer with a moderate cooldown (since we have a lot of anti stun/snare abilities already), or maybe add an additional effect to hand of reckoning to interrupt spell casting (not to be confused with a silence) and balance out the cooldown. Of course blizz would have to balance prots interrupts, but I think it's a change in the right direction in PvP for ret an holy, since we have a severe lack of offensive tools.

[Jerion]

I'm not sure I understand all the people saying we are fine in pve. Granted, we are fine damage and dps-wise. But it takes no skill to play, and there is nothing to separate a good ret paladin from a bad one in terms of dps. The biggest change I would like to see would be to somehow bring skill back into the spec. Something like ferals have would be a good idea I think. It probably shouldn't be as complicated, but just something to let it show that you know your class/spec.

[Meshomesh]

Youre doing something wrong ..

[Whoopzz]

Is it boring and lack luster? Absolutely. But our output is on par.

[Nillo]

Our 5 stack 20 second Ramp is retarded and is by no way in line with other classes, It should have been put on CS/DS/Exo which would reduce the Ramp up time by a decent margin and Exo would allow us to prep and get it on the next target while moving without causing another 20 second ramp. Yogg is a perfect example how no thought went into the ramp up time.

20 seconds = you have 4.0 sec attackspeed after wf - awesome. The ramp up time is more like ~14-15 sec and you already deal most of your damage after 2-3 stacks. You can easily swap seals in the brainroom and SoV is pretty strong for p1 as it keeps ticking when you leave the mob.

Are you new to the Paladin class?
Crusader Strike is lower damage then Melee, Judgement, Consecration and Divine Storm and it's barely higher overall then Blood Corruption. It's a glorified Auto Attack on command. I would love to see one Parse that shows Crusader Strike is top of anything other then Exorcism.

CS + Seal proc does decent damage on a low cd, that's like saying a Frost Strike on a DK is weaker than an autoattack - yes is it but it is still a decent filler attack and does it's job.

[Tdakara]

I would just like to see some sort of 30s, 45, or 1min CD that gives and increased number of stacks of the SoV dot on your next auto, this would serve two purposes. It would allow you to swap targets in PvE when needed (to go kill an Emalon add for example) and it would also allow you to use SoV in a pvp situation where you could switch targets and do a controlled burst. (Yes the taboo word for paladin pvp, Burst). Currently in order to achieve this in PvP we are forced to gimp either our on demand burst (command judge) in favor of sustained or do zero sustained (lol righteousness non judge dmg) for a little bit of on demand dmg. As for PvE currently we are forced to lol our way through content restacking vengeance over a fresh ~15 second period on any new target that we have reason to switch to.

[Nillo]

I would just like to see some sort of 30s, 45, or 1min CD that gives and increased number of stacks of the SoV dot on your next auto, this would serve two purposes. It would allow you to swap targets in PvE when needed (to go kill an Emalon add for example) and it would also allow you to use SoV in a pvp situation where you could switch targets and do a controlled burst. (Yes the taboo word for paladin pvp, Burst). Currently in order to achieve this in PvP we are forced to gimp either our on demand burst (command judge) in favor of sustained or do zero sustained (lol righteousness non judge dmg) for a little bit of on demand dmg. As for PvE currently we are forced to lol our way through content restacking vengeance over a fresh ~15 second period on any new target that we have reason to switch to.

It's not like those 15 seconds are going to screw up our damage.

Zeal of the Crusader
3% of base mana
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of a crusader for 10 sec, increasing attack speed by 70%, but dealing 50% less damage with each attack.

Something like that, but it might need some tuning.

[Ellihashorns]

did you put any thought into this post or did you just kind of poop on your keyboard?

[Soulbender]

poop on your keyboard?

arseroll?

[Deleted]

I would just like to see the stacks stay up a bit longer. So there's more room for switching/running around.

[Arganaut]

I'm happy with Retri right now.

I agree we're in need of something to slightly increase that SOV ramp up. In fact I like the idea of Zeal of Crusade (Ronark'sidea). You would blow it when you need that speed to stack SOV and when switching to new targets, blow the cooldown accordingly.

I'd still like something secondary on Crusader Strike. It just doesn't really warrant it's place as a 41 point talent at the moment. Its a nice instant but needs to do something else for me.

[Nillo]

so you compare, say, at best, 4k criticals Cs + critical sealproc for, like, 2k


with

MIGHTY OVER 9000 BLUE AXEZ?!

Had cs crit for an avg of 4500 (+1350 RV!) and Seals for 2500, so yes I think they can be compared.

[Ronark]

It's not like those 15 seconds are going to screw up our damage.
Something like that, but it might need some tuning.

I'm happy with Retri right now.

I agree we're in need of something to slightly increase that SOV ramp up. In fact I like the idea of Zeal of Crusade (Ronark'sidea). You would blow it when you need that speed to stack SOV and when switching to new targets, blow the cooldown accordingly.

I'd still like something secondary on Crusader Strike. It just doesn't really warrant it's place as a 41 point talent at the moment. Its a nice instant but needs to do something else for me.

Obviously it would need fine tuning (as is the case with most "Made-Up" abilities). The thing was you could sacrifice some damage for a quick stacking of SoV- Because it is a buff, you can easily watch the mob and click it off once you have 5 stacks (or even Macro for it to be removed). The damage reduction part is key though- It would have to be significant enough to make you think about using it when you need the extra damage from the stacks (Brain Room/Heart Phase/Icehowl after he hits the wall), but not enough to where you loose DPS than if you just attacked the mob anyhow for 12-15 seconds.

[Gilgemesh]

IMO, he has an idea with the glyphs but I'd tool it a little differently, with 2 glyphs...
1: Glyph of righteous fury
Increases your expertise by 10 while righteous fury is active
2: Glyph of seal of vengeance/corruption
Makes each melee attack and judgement apply 2 stacks of seal of vengeance.
(Does not work on enemy players or their pets)

[coen]

Changes that I would like to see for Retribution in patch 3.2.2 or 3.3.0

Talents:

Vengeance Rank 3
All your periodic damage done is increased by 15% at all time also gives you a 3% bonus to Physical and Holy
damage you deal for 30 sec after dealing a critical strike from a weapon swing, spell, or ability. This effect stacks up to 3 times.


Swift Retribution Rank 3
Your auras also increase casting, ranged and melee attack speeds by 3%.
Also Increases your Expertise by 3 at all time.


Glyphs:

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance
Major Glyph
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 50
Item Level 55
Use: The periodic damage dealt by your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption can now be critical strikes.


Abilities:

Crusader Strike
5% of base mana Melee Range
Instant cast 4 sec cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
An instant strike that causes 60% weapon damage.

Seal of light - Instantly Heals you for 8% of you maximum health. cannot occur more often than once every 12 sec.

Seal of Wisdom - Instanly Grants you 6% of your maximum mana.

Seal of Corruption/Vengeance - Increases Critical Strike chance by your next Judgement attack by 4% for each stack of Corruption/Vengeace made within 6 sec.

Seal of Command - Damage done with your cleaves is increased by 30% when done with Crusader Strike.

Seal of Righteousness - Leaves a debuff on the target, causes the target to take 20% less Healing for 6 sec.

u want pvp god mode, considering that retri can do huge dmg in few sec while u stun target/healer?

[Stuffmeister]

2: Glyph of seal of vengeance/corruption
Makes each melee attack and judgement apply 2 stacks of seal of vengeance.

^This.

[TheeZ]

Changes that I would like to see for Retribution in patch 3.2.2 or 3.3.0

Crusader Strike
5% of base mana Melee Range
Seal of Wisdom - Instanly Grants you 6% of your maximum mana.

This would imply you wanting to get more mana back than most of (y)our attacks do.

[Varius]

Or just a skill that does 5 auto attacks in 5 seconds, 50% normal dmg 30 sec-1min cooldown, lets you stack vengance/corr on a target for quick dps.