Modify Tailoring CD's

[pepsidrink]

Well its a case of rarity and price
Ebonweave on dragonblight eu horde side can regularily go for 200g+, where as titansteel is cheaper
4 ebonweave every 4 days if you specialse gets you more money item for item then 4 titansteel every 4 days

also,
please
learn
to
paragraph
ty.

thanks
for
the
suggestion.

please
learn
to
know
what
I'm
talking
about

If
I
cared
about
making
gold
I
wouldnt
be
a
tailor..
lol

I
do
however
care
about
productability
and
how
it
affects
the
rest
of
the
cloth
wearers

if
i
take
your
suggestions
seriously
this
is
how
everything
would
look
kewl,
right?

You
decide ^

[Maggeddon]

I think you'd attract more sympathy if people could read your wall of text, and you would stop being a douche.

Its not like the taloiring patterns are the only items out there, and those players who need them for best in slot gear will inariably have the resources and time to get the itmes they need.

true it seems a little unbalanced, but its not a massive game breaking issue. more a of a niggle, or a poke with a jelly spoon. not really hurting me bro.

[Shawaam]

Biggest wall of text EVER. I wont read it even if I get paid for it, dear lord.

[pepsidrink]

I think you'd attract more sympathy if people could read your wall of text, and you would stop being a douche.

Its not like the taloiring patterns are the only items out there, and those players who need them for best in slot gear will inariably have the resources and time to get the itmes they need.

true it seems a little unbalanced, but its not a massive game breaking issue. more a of a niggle, or a poke with a jelly spoon. not really hurting me bro.

Good thing I dont need sympathy. Or else I wouldnt be a douche. If I wasnt a douche then I wouldnt make fun of people who complain that their brain hurts after having to read.

Unfortunate for you, I am a douche who doesn't jump to conclusions from being unable to read for long periods of time. Like you just did. And I like arguing so here it goes.


"Its not like the taloiring patterns are the only items out there, and those players who need them for best in slot gear will inariably have the resources and time to get the itmes they need."

Tailoring patterns arent the only items out, no that is true because they aren't. There was level 80 then ebonweave gloves and chest which helped to get to hit cap. Then Run Naxx/Maly/OS 10 enough times until you get everything from there to do Naxx/OS/Maly 25. Then replace those gloves and chest somewhere inbetween there. Then you set foot into Ulduar 10 get the items and replace them from 25. Patterns to replace certain slots became available through this content. And to use them you needed to have raided enough content to get enough Runed Orbs. For Tailoring and Blacksmithing it was Waist and Boots. They all required 6 Runed Orbs to create. And they also dropped from 25 man content only. Each boss drops a maximum of 2 orbs per lock out period and a total of 10 bosses drop them per instance. So that gives you a shot at a maximum of 20 Runed Orbs per week. Being there are 25 people in that raid your chance is 1/25 for each Orb. Thats a 4% chance that you get a runed orb. To get 6 Runed Orbs to create a single piece you would need to have seen 150 Orbs and won one with a 4% chance. That would take 7.5 weeks to acquire enough Orbs to make a single piece for any profession. Then ToC 10 and same with 25. The pattern from ToC is the chest. Thankfully this is no longer the case. You can acquire a Runed Orb from a vendor now. Making them more available to anyone who takes initiative to run Heroics for a couple hours. The Runed Orb not being the problem here.

The problem is that when someone hits 80 on your server they are looking to gear up to as current content as possible without having to waste weeks on end doing Naxx 10 then 25 then ulduar 10 then 25 just to step foot into current content such as Trial of the Crusader 10 and 25. The problem cloth makers face is that it takes 3.8 times longer to create a single cloth piece per plate piece. Making it more expensive to cloth wearers as well. I know when I first hit 70 I wanted to do Sunwell to get all the cool armor but all I was geared for was Kara Mags and Gruuls. Then a long time later after that I was good for Tk/SSC then I could do ZA then BT/Hyjal and Sunwell towards the very end of the patch. I know many fresh 70s that never got the opportunity as I did as well as people who were 70 before me.

Today at level 80 this is no longer and issue and Blizzard has implemented alot of ways around this. Players can choose to skip Naxx/Maly/OS 10 and 25, Ulduar 10 and 25 and jump right into ToC and work your way up from there. But it is limited more to cloth wearers than plate wearers and leather wearers. Why should they be punished for wearing cloth which is what it seems like because the mats are harder to get being the CD is longer than any other CD uses more materials. Making cloth the hardest armor to obtain and the most expensive type of armor and least desirable because of such.

And you are right again "and those players who need them for best in slot gear will inariably have the resources and time to get the itmes they need." Out of the WoW Elite gold farmers they are the only people to get a chance at the armor. They have spent alot of time making the game harder for other players by boosting item costs in AH just so that they could say "Yah Im cool bro I have over 60K". Which really has a negative effect on the game. Which means that yea "good" players are better geared, right? Well why should only chinese farmers be able to take this advantage over the game? If you want more people doing hard modes then stop making armor so hard to get for everyone.

Sure I'm pretty well geared too. But I got lucky because I took advantage of the rules implemented by Blizzard. Sure my staff sucks and I need a new one, but that's why I kill Twin Valkyr every week and Anubarak in ToC.

And besides that fact the first thing I wanted when I hit the level cap and got gear was Epic Flying. But with constantly upgrading armor every new patch and gemming and enchanting it is impossible for a new player to get Epic Flying. Sure I mean it's pretty easy if you level up and get a bunch of gold and save it all the way til you hit 80 then you are faced with "Epic Flying or a new belt" if you are a cloth wearer or if you are a plate wearer i doubt many of them are saying "Epic Flying or new belt" Why when its 1/4 th of the cost of cloth and you could spend it on both.

So does this mean I have to buy out everything on the AH and relist them for 200% more and buyout all of my competition and keep doing that until every single item I own sells like all of the other farmers just to stockpile enough gold to finally buy that new belt and epic flying? Well that would take alot of gold to start with as well as alot of time. Sounds like I need to quit my real job and take up WoW for as long as I can before they shut off all of my stuff because I didnt have the money to pay for it just to get ahead.

[HolyshockTalniEU]

Dude it took me ages to read your wall of texts I stopped half way the first page.
But anyway.
U can make the same amount of cloth as I transmute(alchemist here) 4 item per 4 days same for u 4 cloth per 4 days so what are u QQing about that u need 2 for the same shit 4 days but can make it in 1 day while i need 2 log on 4 times for 4 items....

[pepsidrink]

Dude it took me ages to read your wall of texts I stopped half way the first page.
But anyway.
U can make the same amount of cloth as I transmute(alchemist here) 4 item per 4 days same for u 4 cloth per 4 days so what are u QQing about that u need 2 for the same shit 4 days but can make it in 1 day while i need 2 log on 4 times for 4 items....

What? lol

[pepsidrink]

Dude it took me ages to read your wall of texts I stopped half way the first page.
But anyway.
U can make the same amount of cloth as I transmute(alchemist here) 4 item per 4 days same for u 4 cloth per 4 days so what are u QQing about that u need 2 for the same shit 4 days but can make it in 1 day while i need 2 log on 4 times for 4 items....

Its not 4 items per 4 days. Its 4 total items per 4 days. 3 different casts that the CD is 3 days 20 hours. 4 hours short of 4 days. You dont transmute every 24 hours which is 1 day. You transmute every 20 hours. Thats a 12 hour difference in the course of 4 days. And I lost you in the rest of your post. Please try to be more logical and nonsensical when you are posting if you expect a reply.

[Yerbury]

See like I said before this is exactly the kind of thinking that makes this thing ok..
Yes I am seeking a solution to an existing problem. Waving a magical wand? You lost me there. I understand the tailoring CD sucks right now. And how do you think laws were put into the first place and how people get change? They stand up and fight for it.

I reiterate my previous point. On the one hand, you state that you are seeking a solution to an existing problem, but when presented with the obvious solution(s), you argue. If acquiring cooldowns or leveling the profession on an alt do not represent adequate alternatives, I'm sorry. There are currently no other alternatives available, and there is nothing that contributors here can do to 'fix' the situation for you.

If you are looking for change, write to Blizzard. As developer and manager of the game, they are the only party in a position to lend an ear to your grievances and make the changes you feel are necessary.

As an aside, I'd like to believe that my 'thinking' somehow influences Blizzard but frankly that is a load of drivel.

And to answer your last comment. Ok then I was wrong. So it does cost cloth wearers 2 to 4 times as much as a plate wearer to acquire gear making it the hardest armor to obtain. Why do you think that this is? 240 hours of waiting per bs piece. 920 hours waiting for cloth piece. Is that a good reason? I would rather bs and cloth items become more competitive in terms of price anyway. Which means they cost less, sell more often(made more often) which would be providing players with an easy and cheap solution to missing out on that piece of gear that dropped that they didnt win.

You largely answered your own question here. If a cloth piece takes significantly longer to craft, it is of course likely to be more expensive. This is particularly the case where demand for cloth items is high. We don't just have the traditional array of priests, locks and mages wearing cloth these days, as indicated in other recent posts.

That said, tailoring was not developed by Blizzard as a substitute for raid gear. It is a foundation upon which players can build as they begin raiding. We have all lost out on drops, and the solution is never then to fall back on tailoring. You go in the following week and try your luck again.

And like I said before do I smell a gold farmer?
I don't want blizzard to decrease the cooldown, if you ever get an excess of cloth that (if you bought it) costs around 10g (if that) and resell for 100-150g (depending how much is up). I'd rather do that once every 4 days and get 200-300g doing absolutely nothing than making 20g every day because there's too much cloth for anyone to do anything with..

I'm going to assume that you aren't referring to me.

So you don't want Blizzard to decrease the cooldown. But you don't like the cooldown timeframe and don't think it is fair. Please make up your mind.

If an excess of cloth goes for 10g then how could you possibly resell it for 100-150g? It would mean that the cloth was worth 150g max. Anyone willing to sell you the cloth for 10g so you can just resell it for 150g is just retarted. And if it is resellable anyway, then apparently its still worth something to someone. AKA Making bags with it, new gear. I so sorry that you waited 4 days to make 200-300g. But it wouldnt be 20g that you made if the CD was shorter it would be the 100-150g per piece and being the cd was shorter you would bring home more in the end assuming that you only created 2 piece of your specced cloth. Would bring you 800-1200g if you want a gold farmers prospective.

A saturation of the market with any item - let alone cloth - will lead to ridiculous price drops. There are many examples of this across the AH, which was (and remains) the point. I haven't a clue what else you were saying there.

Bottom line - tailoring is not a profession for those seeking instant gratification. If you don't like the ~4 day cooldowns, try another profession. Jewelcrafting and enchanting are great, and will fill your pockets with enough gold to buy all the level 80 crafted cloth pieces you need from the AH. After all, they are (without exception) BoE.

[pepsidrink]

I reiterate my previous point. On the one hand, you state that you are seeking a solution to an existing problem, but when presented with the obvious solution(s), you argue. If acquiring cooldowns or leveling the profession on an alt do not represent adequate alternatives, I'm sorry. There are currently no other alternatives available, and there is nothing that contributors here can do to 'fix' the situation for you.

If you are looking for change, write to Blizzard. As developer and manager of the game, they are the only party in a position to lend an ear to your grievances and make the changes you feel are necessary.

As an aside, I'd like to believe that my 'thinking' somehow influences Blizzard but frankly that is a load of drivel.

You largely answered your own question here. If a cloth piece takes significantly longer to craft, it is of course likely to be more expensive. This is particularly the case where demand for cloth items is high. We don't just have the traditional array of priests, locks and mages wearing cloth these days, as indicated in other recent posts.

That said, tailoring was not developed by Blizzard as a substitute for raid gear. It is a foundation upon which players can build as they begin raiding. We have all lost out on drops, and the solution is never then to fall back on tailoring. You go in the following week and try your luck again.

I'm going to assume that you aren't referring to me.

So you don't want Blizzard to decrease the cooldown. But you don't like the cooldown timeframe and don't think it is fair. Please make up your mind.

A saturation of the market with any item - let alone cloth - will lead to ridiculous price drops. There are many examples of this across the AH, which was (and remains) the point. I haven't a clue what else you were saying there.

Bottom line - tailoring is not a profession for those seeking instant gratification. If you don't like the ~4 day cooldowns, try another profession. Jewelcrafting and enchanting are great, and will fill your pockets with enough gold to buy all the level 80 crafted cloth pieces you need from the AH. After all, they are (without exception) BoE.

Ok so maybe I am alluding you here. Either you aren't reading what everyone else has to say, or you are being down right ignorant. Most of the quotes you quoted to me were comments from other users. Maybe you want to try this again?

No making a tailoring alt is not a feasible option to making a solution for this. And neither is Buying a cooldown from another tailor. All that is doing is saying yea its fine that it takes 10 days for BSing to make their best item but it takes tailors 38.333 days to make theirs. Yes currently there are no alternatives available.

Why would you say that Tailoring is not meant for people to get gear to help them be more viable as far as increasing stats to being raiding when clearly they have have better stats then most of the new instances introduced since i can remember. If that is not true then why would there be armor crafting professions in the first place. My take on this is that you dont even play wow and you are just on here to stir up trouble.

-Bottom line being that why wait 38.3333 days when you could do it in 10 like everyone else.. If I dont like 4 day cooldowns then im going to complain day after day until it changes. And you are right I am posting in the wrong forums. I was under the impression more people from blizz might read MMO-Champion dunno where I got that idea but I know I was wrong. IF I wanted to fill my pockets with gold I wouldnt rely on a profession I would just buy everything off the AH relist it for 200% and buyout my competition until I sold everything I acquired during the process and walk away with 4 accounts full of banks and characters on the same server with max gold.

[Yerbury]

Ok so maybe I am alluding you here. Either you aren't reading what everyone else has to say, or you are being down right ignorant. Most of the quotes you quoted to me were comments from other users. Maybe you want to try this again?

No making a tailoring alt is not a feasible option to making a solution for this. And neither is Buying a cooldown from another tailor. All that is doing is saying yea its fine that it takes 10 days for BSing to make their best item but it takes tailors 38.333 days to make theirs. Yes currently there are no alternatives available.

Why would you say that Tailoring is not meant for people to get gear to help them be more viable as far as increasing stats to being raiding when clearly they have have better stats then most of the new instances introduced since i can remember. If that is not true then why would there be armor crafting professions in the first place. My take on this is that you dont even play wow and you are just on here to stir up trouble.

-Bottom line being that why wait 38.3333 days when you could do it in 10 like everyone else.. If I dont like 4 day cooldowns then im going to complain day after day until it changes. And you are right I am posting in the wrong forums. I was under the impression more people from blizz might read MMO-Champion dunno where I got that idea but I know I was wrong. IF I wanted to fill my pockets with gold I wouldnt rely on a profession I would just buy everything off the AH relist it for 200% and buyout my competition until I sold everything I acquired during the process and walk away with 4 accounts full of banks and characters on the same server with max gold.

Hmmm. In reviewing my last post:-

Quote 1 - your words, lifted directly from your post of 9:21 yesterday
Quote 2 - your words, lifted directly from your post of 9:21 yesterday
Quote 3 - your words, lifted directly from your post of 9:21 yesterday
Quote 4 - your words, lifted directly from your post of 9:21 yesterday

Perhaps I am being ignorant. However, I'll wait to concede this until you explain how I am quoting comments from other users when these paragraphs appear verbatim in your last post - not as quotes from others but as your own thoughts.

As for the second of your personal attacks, I'd ask you to re-read my post. I stated that tailoring provides a foundation upon which raiding players can build as they acquire better gear. Tailoring provides items that are sufficient as a stop-gap for entry level raids. Tailored items were never designed to stand on their own as a substitute for raiding gear. The two concepts are at odds, and I invite you to consider the difference.

As for your bottom line - once again, you contradict yourself. You stated in your prior post that "I don't want Blizzard to decrease the cooldown". Now you are saying "...why wait 38.3333 days when you could do it in 10 like everyone else. If I dont like 4 day cooldowns then im going to complain day after day until it changes".

I'm not trying to be difficult. You have two competing schools of thought here, which are polar opposite from each other, and both are entirely central to your original post. How can you expect others to comment on your ideas in a meaningful way when you are essentially arguing against yourself?

Your contributions have taken on a really personal and spiteful tone. I was originally trying to help you by suggesting alternatives, but since then I (and others) have come under attack. I won't bother replying to you again as you are obviously not here to seek advice.

Good luck with tailoring and with the game generally.

[mireigi]

All Alchemy transmutes are on the same CD, so if an Alchemist transmutes one item, he can't do any transmutes for the next 20 hours.

Tailoring Clothcraft does NOT share the same CD, enabling you to do more than 1 Clothcraft per CD. This is why it's on a much longer CD.
Also all the materials for Clothcraft can be farmed off all Northrend mobs, except for the Eternals which only drop from Elementals.

Your big-wall-of-way-too-long-monkey-arse-formatted-text-of-QQ might have had some merit back in Vanilla where you could only Clothcraft 1 Mooncloth every 4 days while everything else was on 24 hour CDs.

Seriously. Don't write unless you know how to:
1. use paragraphs in a proper way
2. say what you want to say in less than 10 lines of text
3. respond to criticism and suggestion in a non-offensive manner

[Hrethel]

Your dismissal of the Alchemy transmutation analogy was pretty weak too.

A tailor can make 4 pieces of Level 80 cloth, then he has to wait effecitvely four days (actually 3 days and 20 hours or something like that). This in no way affects his other cloth-making abilities, like the making of lvl 70 cloth.

An Alchemist conducts 1 transmutation, lets say a rare gem to an epic gem. Then, while the Tailor is waiting for his cooldown to finish, the Alchemist can do it three more times, since each time has a 20-hour cooldown. Net result is that they each end up with four items in a four day period. Yes, the Alchemist can do it in a few hours less, but unless you're logged on watching your cooldown timers tick down, it's not a hugely relevent period. And the Alchemist has to choose carefully. If he transmutes a rare gem to an epic gem, he can't transmute any Eternals. The different cloths don't impact on one another, the transmutes do.

You don't need that many cloths to gear up, I really don't see what your problem is on that front. To make, for example, the Ebonweave items at level 80 you need 12 pieces of cloth. If you're a dps caster who's going to want those, you're presumably specced for Ebonweave. So that's 6 casts of the Ebonweave tailoring ability, meaning you have to wait for five cooldowns to pass if you're going to make them all yourself. That's just over 19 days. It's really not that much time. Keep your tailoring up while you level and you'll get a cast or even two as you level between 74-ish and 80. That'll cut your wait from when you ding 80 to 12-15 days.

But wait! There's more! In the 19 days of making 12 Ebonweave, our intrepid tailor has also been able to make 6 Spellweave and 6 Moonshroud! You almost certainly don't need all three kinds for your newly dinged 80 to gear up with, so the Spellweave and Moonshroud can be used to... wait for it... get more Ebonweave! That's right. You can sell or even just trade any one of your cloths for others. There's demand for them all, it's really not hard. Pretty sure I can get one Ebonweave for one Spellweave or Moonshroud. So, in that one cooldown period I've not only gotten 2 Ebonweave, I've also gotten two things that can quickly and readily be converted into Ebonweave.

Unfortunately for you, this plan involves interacting with other people, which this thread has shown you're not particularly adept at, however, I'll plough on, this is, after all, an MMO we're talking about. We're still looking to get our hands on a total of 12 Ebonweave. But now we've figured out that in our four day cooldown, we actually get four items! (Just like our Alchemist buddy, and indeed our Miner friend making Titansteel). With just a little bit of very simple trading you can effectively double the amount of Ebonweave you're making in each cooldown period. If you trade your off-spec cloths for more of your on-spec cloth, you can cut your cooldown time in two. We now only really need to do 3 casts. That's a wait of two cooldowns. Holy shit! That means you can get 12 Ebonweave (or their easily tradeable equivalent) in a mere 7.6 days of cooldown.

8 days after you make your first cloth you can have 12 of them. It's that simple. The type of cloth is something you're fixating on far too much. You don't need a tailoring alt, just the wherewithall to open up /2 and ask if anyone wants to trade their cloth types on a 1-for-1 basis. I guess you could make an argument that a warrior with Mining would have enough Titansteel Bars for his helmet and boots after 6 days of cooldown (since he needs 7 bars), but it's much harder to start smelting Titansteel early, since you need 450 Mining, and of course you need actual Titanium, much harder to acquire before 76+ when you've moved onto places like Sholazar or Storm Peaks. The greater ease of getting the mats for the cloths offsets the couple of days of extra cooldown. In the race to get your professions 2 pieces of epics quickly when you hit 80, they're on a par. ... Except of course that Titansteel bars are made by miners, and the plate epics are made by Blacksmiths, but hey, I'll cut you some slack on that one.


[Edit: I appear to have parried the OP's wall of text with one of my own. Oops.]

TL:DR Version: Tailoring cooldown is effectively the same as the mining and alchemy ones, you just need to be aware that you're getting four cloths of three different types rather than four of your choice. It all balances out pretty evenly. It's an MMO, you may want to interact with other players.

[Azyoulike]

If you shortened the CD on the cloth's all you would do is mean that we'd have to log in use them more often to make the same profit. The CDs are fine - especially now we can use them all in DB - I hated having to fly all over northrend.

If you are taking too long to make the cloth you need - buy it on the AH from other tailors, then later sell your surplus - it's called an economy dude.

[Runewolf]

If
I
cared
about
making
gold
I
wouldnt
be
a
tailor..
lol

Tailoring actually makes good money, or at least mine does...WHOA! BURNED! (jk)

[Danner]

I think the OP is trying to say that there isn't a good way to make money with tailoring. The benefits of tailoring is on par - probably even slightly better - than the competition thanks to the back enchant. There just isn't any incentive to stay a tailor once you have the back enchant. On my server, we have people rerolling tailoring every time they get a new cloak, then dropping the profession again just as they enchanted it. Makes a good market for selling low-level cloth if anything.

There are a few ways of making money with tailoring though.

Sell 4-day cooldowns

The cloth usually sell for 100g on the AH, and the mats are less than that. Which means there is a profit in tailoring. It's just really really bad; usually around 30-50g per cloth sold. Divided by four days, that's a negligible profit; you're better off doing a dailyquest or fishing a single fish feast for AH sale instead of flying around to the dragon shrines. The OP suggests lowering the cooldowns in order to make money on bulk sale - which would be nice - but I don't think the demands for these cloth is that large TBH...

Feeding profession for enchanting

This has been horribly nerfed in WoTLK. In TBC, I could spend three bolts of cloth and a thread to make a green belt or bracer, disenchant it into 3-4 dust or an essence. In WoTLK, I can do the same, but only get 1 dust, or a minor essence. Even at a record high 5g / dust, this method of creating enchanting mats is still not profitable - for the reason primarily being that a thread cost 2.5g alone (3g without exalted discount) and the cloth mats being closer to 4g / 15 cloth. Higher level enchants are even less profitable.

Selling crafted recipes

All but the Ulduar and ToC recipes are horribly subpar to faceroll Naxx loot, and is thus impossible to sell - noone wants them. Even the annoying-to-get deathchill cloak pales to Naxx10 drops. The Ulduar and ToC recipes are possible to sell; but - people are cheapasses. Don't expect more than a 5g commission for making a recipe. And that's the result of having to spend hours spamming /2 with "[Tailor] for hire". Not worth the effort.

You can make one of the sellable recipes and sell it on the AH though. If you can sell them, that's a decent profit. But if you can not, you've bound up close to 10k gold in a robe of merlin - and that's a major risk to take.

Selling spellthread

This is probably the best non-hazardous way of making money with tailoring. Problem is; every single tailor on the server is competing for a very small market (non-tailoring casters' leg upgrades). At my server, I've seen these go for as little as 15g. And that's just crazy low compared to the mat costs. I'd buy the spellthread on the AH over making them myself - if I didn't have the cheapass version available as a tailor benefit.

--

Concluding; there isn't a stable way of making profit as a tailor. If you have 10k gold available, it's better to try to monopolize some commodity at the AH instead of taking the risk of selling a ToC recipe.

[Azyoulike]

There just isn't any incentive to stay a tailor once you have the back enchant. On my server, we have people rerolling tailoring every time they get a new cloak, then dropping the profession again just as they enchanted it.

I'm pretty sure that the embroidery only activates if you have 400 Tailoring so that's wrong. Same as any other professions upgrade.

Even the annoying-to-get deathchill cloak pales to Naxx10 drops.

Erm no, it doesn't actually. Deathchill is considerably better than any cloak from 10 man naxx, and almost every cloak in 25 man. Most people won't upgrade it till Ulduar, which is why it still sells well on most realms. The reason that the price holds up is precisely because it is a pain to get.

Tailoring is pretty decent as cash-making professions go. It just requires a bit of effort and thought.

[Danner]

You're right about the activation on the cloak enchant actually. It only activates if you have 400 tailoring. Makes me wonder why there is such a high demand for low-level cloth on my server then...