New 11/0/60 Shadow PvE Spec?

[Kelesti]

Considering the Improved Spirit Tap changes, and where mana is "at" at this state of the game, I was kind of wondering whether Meditation is worth 5 talent points. We all raid with healing priests of some sort (or at least, 90% of us), so Improved Fortitude gives us, what, 4% stam?

Mana's abundant. But not abundant enough to drop 100% of our regen. So why not take the 3 points from Meditation, and 2 from Improved Fortitude, and flesh out the Improved Spirit Tap? I mean, given current crit setups, it should have 100% (or close to it) uptime, and finally puts to rest that same old "Shadow Affinity+Imp VE or ST+IST?" debate, because now you get BOTH.

I dunno, that's just my thinking, anyways. What're your thoughts on the New 8/0/63 Shadow PvE spec?

Edit: Deciding (for 10 mans) it'd be better to Keep Improved Fortitude. So I went with: 11/0/60 with Inner Focus or 11/0/60 with 1/3 Meditation, and probably sticking with that one.

[talrob]

I've never seen the point of affinity, 30% threat reduction when we aren't exactly the top dps class in the game is enough, especially when you can just fade before aoeing for no threat.

I'd probably take improved fort and inner focus instead purely for a very very very minor dps increase and confidence that I have imp fort in 10 mans.

[Amundin]

I've never seen the point of affinity, 30% threat reduction when we aren't exactly the top dps class in the game is enough, especially when you can just fade before aoeing for no threat.

I'd probably take improved fort and inner focus instead purely for a very very very minor dps increase and confidence that I have imp fort in 10 mans.

I agree with him. I will also add that the imp fort will be better to survive in raids.

[Straing]

Just curious, but is imp shadowform really necessary? and why do you put 3 points into focused mind instead of 3 points into meditation? Just seems kinda silly to me.

[Thragh]

No. Unless your tank sucks you will never need the threat reduction. You also don't need imp shadow form, rather a waste of 2 points. Get meditation, Imp. Fort and Imp. VE..

You are brought to AoE heal with VE, Mana regen and buffs. Holy and Disc builds usually skip imped fort because of other talents that help them. you will find yourself oom without meditation.

[Kelesti]

I agree with him. I will also add that the imp fort will be better to survive in raids.

The additional static stamina provided by Imp Fort is being brought by your Discipline or Holy Priests. So really, you spec it to get 4% stamina as a filler to get Meditation.

Just curious, but is imp shadowform really necessary?

For anything post-Naxxramas? The answer is why the hell are you not running with it?

and why do you put 3 points into focused mind instead of 3 points into meditation? Just seems kinda silly to me.

Focused Mind is a form of "regen" in that you aren't spending the mana. Before the IST change, people would be picking up both. But now I'm questioning whether the regen from Meditation is worth 5 points, when we can squeeze a bit of spellpower from the same five points and not really impact our mana situation at all.

[Kelesti]

No. Unless your tank sucks you will never need the threat reduction. You also don't need imp shadow form, rather a waste of 2 points. Get meditation, Imp. Fort and Imp. VE..

Improved Shadow Form is pushback reduction. If you're taking pushback, you're not doing your DPS. True story.

You are brought to AoE heal with VE, Mana regen and buffs. Holy and Disc builds usually skip imped fort because of other talents that help them. you will find yourself oom without meditation.

Holy and Discipline builds that skip Improved Fort in PvE? Let's see, Martyrdom is useless in PvE. And so is heal-threat from Silent Resolve. And last I checked, bosses haven't dispelled since Durnholde in TBC.
Any heal priest worth their salt takes it because they NEED Meditation. Improved Spirit Tap is now giving Shadow most of meditation's benefit anyways, that's what I'm saying.

[Straing]

Improved Shadow Form is pushback reduction. If you're taking pushback, you're not doing your DPS. True story.

Pushback doesn't happen in PvE?

[Kelesti]

Pushback doesn't happen in PvE?

And raid healers and VE are both useless because only tanks take damage? Amidoinitrite?

[fabian]

I've rearranged your the talent tree you gave to go 2 into Imp Fort and 1 into meditation. Since IST and Meditation stacks, this is all you would need to get back to the amount of mana regen Meditation gives.

11/0/60

Pushback doesn't happen in PvE?

I can see that you don't raid much...

[Kelesti]

I've rearranged your the talent tree you gave to go 2 into Imp Fort and 1 into meditation. Since IST and Meditation stacks, this is all you would need to get back to the amount of mana regen Meditation gives.

Considering ToC content, its lack of AoE, and the state of our DPS now, I can see the point of Dropping Shadow Affinity, but I'm a little hesitant about moving into Icecrown, as we don't have a threat "drop" ability that's actually permanent. Mages can Invis, Warlocks can Soul Shatter, Elemental Shaman can lolShear. Fade working for 10 sec kinda sucks.

But I like your idea of 11/60.

[Pheonixis]

All this shadow priest talk is coming from a person I've seen post about how little she likes to play shadow. Oh well.

Shadow affinity? Never needed it.

I guess we will have to see how much this affects shadow priests when the patch hits. Till then we can do nothing but speculate.

[mandrus]

Theres no diffrance than just improved Vamp Embrance, since i never saw shadow priests taking threat redu for pve, 30% from shadow form is more than enough.

[Lucetia]

Considering the Improved Spirit Tap changes, and where mana is "at" at this state of the game, I was kind of wondering whether Meditation is worth 5 talent points. We all raid with healing priests of some sort (or at least, 90% of us), so Improved Fortitude gives us, what, 4% stam?

Mana's abundant. But not abundant enough to drop 100% of our regen. So why not take the 3 points from Meditation, and 2 from Improved Fortitude, and flesh out the Improved Spirit Tap? I mean, given current crit setups, it should have 100% (or close to it) uptime, and finally puts to rest that same old "Shadow Affinity+Imp VE or ST+IST?" debate, because now you get BOTH.

I dunno, that's just my thinking, anyways. What're your thoughts on the New 8/0/63 Shadow PvE spec?

I do not know what spec you are currently running now, but the spec I am using I am able to grab both Meditation / Imp Spirit Tap. Now granted I only picked up 2/3 Focused Mind, but I'm not noticing much difference without it atm. Here's the one I am currently using -- Current PvE Spec

As someone mentioned I have not ever seen a need for the reduced threat talent unless the tank themselves was really bad. The only things I have contemplated is removing the 2 points in Imp VE (It only heals for 400-500 even JoL heals for more than that). I figured the silence would be nice to have, but 4 secs off Fear isn't much really to encourage getting it.

[ra3l]

I've rearranged your the talent tree you gave to go 2 into Imp Fort and 1 into meditation. Since IST and Meditation stacks, this is all you would need to get back to the amount of mana regen Meditation gives.

11/0/60
I can see that you don't raid much...

well, the 1 point in meditation is really useless....get Inner Focus instead, mindsearing with a higher critchance is so much better, anyway...who cares about imp VE ????
are your healers so dreadful ?
stick with 13/0/58 .....with 3 ponts in meditation or 2 an 1 in innerfocus....depends on your mana management i think

i almost never have manaissues....only when your gellow dps are like " i'm a freaking melee hunter, fear my SULFURON HAMMER!!!" if you know what i mean

just do your stuff right and read some guides......no pushback in pve..... made my day

[Weena]

I would still stick with 3/3 meditation, 2/2 imp fort and 5/5 spirit tap. Reason being that the mana gained from meditation could be a dps increase since you 'might' not have to use dispersion, or possibly needed it in a fight where a shadowpriests mana actualy runs low (not many in TOC). The 2/2 Imp VE is situational and it is worth picking up on a fight where its actualy useful like Twin Valkyr hardmode in TOC 25, while i wouldnt keep it all the time, i would go respec for that fight if needed.

[Kelesti]

I do not know what spec you are currently running now, but the spec I am using I am able to grab both Meditation / Imp Spirit Tap. Now granted I only picked up 2/3 Focused Mind, but I'm not noticing much difference without it atm. Here's the one I am currently using -- Current PvE Spec

As someone mentioned I have not ever seen a need for the reduced threat talent unless the tank themselves was really bad. The only things I have contemplated is removing the 2 points in Imp VE (It only heals for 400-500 even JoL heals for more than that). I figured the silence would be nice to have, but 4 secs off Fear isn't much really to encourage getting it.

Except you don't use Improved Shadow Form. That right there discounts a bigger part of your spec than me using Shadow Affinity (which people here are laughing at).

I would still stick with 3/3 meditation, 2/2 imp fort and 5/5 spirit tap. Reason being that the mana gained from meditation could be a dps increase since you 'might' not have to use dispersion, or possibly needed it in a fight where a shadowpriests mana actualy runs low (not many in TOC). The 2/2 Imp VE is situational and it is worth picking up on a fight where its actualy useful like Twin Valkyr hardmode in TOC 25, while i wouldnt keep it all the time, i would go respec for that fight if needed.

Saving Dispersion for an "Oh Shit" button instead of mana? I kinda like that, but I've always been putting those that use "the Shadow" into the MT group for VE heals anyways (except on something like Twin Valk's or Anub) because it helps, despite how much people say "lol ur healers must fail".

Not sure that I want to drop that utility, but it's good discussion, and definitely making me think twice about it though.

[fabian]

well, the 1 point in meditation is really useless....get Inner Focus instead, mindsearing with a higher critchance is so much better, anyway...who cares about imp VE ????
are your healers so dreadful ?
stick with 13/0/58 .....with 3 ponts in meditation or 2 an 1 in innerfocus....depends on your mana management i think

i almost never have manaissues....only when your gellow dps are like " i'm a freaking melee hunter, fear my SULFURON HAMMER!!!" if you know what i mean

just do your stuff right and read some guides......no pushback in pve..... made my day

Read the first post and see what this thread is actually about instead of quoting a random post.

I gave a more regen oriented build than the OP at the sacrifice of a threat reduction talent(which right, we don't need). I also stated that with my build, the amount of mana regen from the combined 2/2 IST(looks like it will be close to 100% uptime in 3.2.2) and 1/3 Meditation equals that of 3/3 Meditation.

I personally would want to see some ptr logs because if you can pick up all pve utility talents without worrying about wasting talent points is something I would love.

[Lucetia]

Except you don't use Improved Shadow Form. That right there discounts a bigger part of your spec than me using Shadow Affinity (which people here are laughing at).

This is true, but thats also because the last time I changed my spec on my priest I put the points in Focused Mind instead of Imp Shadowform. This reminds me I need to go respec him because there have been a lot of fights where aoe damage is caused and would help reduce the knockback on casting MF/Mind Blast

[sleekit]

some of you need to get away from the idea that people 'bring you' to provide 5% of your dmg as healing to 4 other peeps.

people bring you to do dps.

VE is a joke now even when its talented up to 5%
your thought processes are relics from an age when it was 20%