retribution, its flaws & its strengths

[Alienganja]

I can only hope after this post.

[PremiumTax]

This is why I am so happy I play a pally, only pallys can ignite so much hate... I love it because everyone knows if someone is hating on you you must be doing something right.

[fl4shi]

sorry let me introduce myself... my name is rusty... rusty shackleford and I don't approve of your message


Ret pallys are...not...op right now. we really just aren't. adding a gap closer or snare would not be game breaking for the ret pally class, or giving us a interupt. one or the other... all 3 would be game breaking but giving ret pallys a fucking bone wouldn't be.

If you die 1 on 1 to a ret pally the pally deserved to win. only class we have a advantage on is a rogue and even then a good rogue is going to win.

and thats if you are looking at 1v1 which the game (as blizzard keeps saying) isn't based on.

in group pvp half the time ret pallys are liabilities unless we run around in pve gear blowing shit up and I mean that (I blow shit up in pve gear, and in 3s when im in partial pve gear running a cleave team I blow things up, not quite as mush as my dk partner but damn it I try)

Ret pallys are okay, we are a bit weak but we will make it, and I thank my lucky stripes every day im not a enhancement shammy.

"If you die 1 on 1 to a ret pally the pally deserved to win. only class we have a advantage on is a rogue and even then a good rogue is going to win."
really?!
the only class i lose 1v1 with my ret pally is another ret pally with better / same gear

[PremiumTax]

I am really happy for you, because I am going to be honest with you. if a good rogue times dismantle and cloak of shadows correctly. he has won.

He is going to be low from simply judgement damage. but he has won.

If I am on point against a rogue thats on point I can judgement him and kite him around keeping myself up with art of war flash of lights and lifeblood. and annihilate him when I get my wep back.


now I don't know about you but in duels I don't lay on hands or bubble, it cheapens the win and when I win I like to be an asshole and revel in destroying someone without using cds. esspecially on rogues when they burn every cd they have to beat me.


but a good rogue is going to win if he plays correctly. cloak the stun. or if my stun simply misses the game is lost unless you reset it with repentence. lol god I love duels when I get off work i am gonna duel someone on wow.

[Azyoulike]

For starters exorcism is the wrongest of wrong places to put your hypothetical interrupt. Next we'd be wanting it taken off the GCD, and that would be impossible as it would make for stupid burst. If ret pallies need another interrupt, and it's a big if, it should be a completely new ability. Just look at enhance shammies, they hated their old interrupt system - I suspect this is exactly why in the end Blizz decided against an interrupt glyph for exorcism.

Also, it's not reasonable to get the entire shopping list all at once. Either we should get a snare or an interrupt or a MS, not all 3 - the best bet would be the mortal strike - but - it should be a magic effect and hence dispellable. Simplest way to implement it would be as a new glyph on CS.

And in trade for the holy trinity of pvp offensive utilities you offer to reduce healing by 20%? Actually not even that - you want to reduce the base amounts by 20%, so the final healing will end up down by around 10%. C'mon - that's just not serious, if you want a proper discussion put something sensible on the table. You'd need to look at something more substantial - mostly likely a decrease in the damage output of CS.

Next time lower your sights and don't make the thread a poll, it's just silly. Otherwise we'll be coming back next week for the 'Should priests get blink, an extra HoT and a burst DPS hymn while only giving up Mind Vision - PS only priests should vote' poll.

[Splatter]

If u give a pally less self healing abilities, a snare and an MS effect... you have a warrior with bubble ? while i think rets do need a bit of help staying on their target making them warriors isnt the way to do it. A slight snare attached to HoJ or maybe JoJ would make more sense to me, maybe an interupt added to Exorcism so its not spammable, (1 interupt every 15 sec is reasonable)

[PremiumTax]

For starters exorcism is the wrongest of wrong places to put your hypothetical interrupt. Next we'd be wanting it taken off the GCD, and that would be impossible as it would make for stupid burst. If ret pallies need another interrupt, and it's a big if, it should be a completely new ability. Just look at enhance shammies, they hated their old interrupt system - I suspect this is exactly why in the end Blizz decided against an interrupt glyph for exorcism.

Also, it's not reasonable to get the entire shopping list all at once. Either we should get a snare or an interrupt or a MS, not all 3 - the best bet would be the mortal strike - but - it should be a magic effect and hence dispellable. Simplest way to implement it would be as a new glyph on CS.

And in trade for the holy trinity of pvp offensive utilities you offer to reduce healing by 20%? Actually not even that - you want to reduce the base amounts by 20%, so the final healing will end up down by around 10%. C'mon - that's just not serious, if you want a proper discussion put something sensible on the table. You'd need to look at something more substantial - mostly likely a decrease in the damage output of CS.

Next time lower your sights and don't make the thread a poll, it's just silly. Otherwise we'll be coming back next week for the 'Should priests get blink, an extra HoT and a burst DPS hymn while only giving up Mind Vision - PS only priests should vote' poll.

well I have a shadow priest alt (which I love for the awesome shadow nuts) and I say no to blink, no to hot, yes to burst dps hymn. because my dps on my shadow priest is far below par. make it passive like unholy blight or something idk lol.

[zcks]

Honestly I don't know what I was thinking opening a topic on these forums about how to fix retribution's problems & how to fix them and balance us, seriously why cant all of you trolls just leave our forums the hell alone.
At any rate I'm going to be asking a moderator to close the topic & take any actions needed against the trolls.

[leolol]

lol.

theres a reason why you dont have an MS. because if you did you will kill everything.

how do warriors kill paladins? they pop all their defensive CDs AND hots. if you take that away from a warrior they woud have to rely on their shear burst. and that is arguably somthing warriors seriously lack (IMHO)

priests have enough time surviving anything with a physical damage output, which is somthing that rets combine very well with high holy burst.

as for other classes i assume that their are other mechanics that rely on paladins NOT having an MS. your burst is great enough to compensate for the need in MOST situations.

as for the interupt. you have one. because your burst is at a high point (and of course in certain situations) you should catch the healer when he is already behind in the case of casters and save your HoJ, untill their at 35pct or less and comunicate to your partner that the HoJ is out and he needs some fast burst. in the case of a druid wait untill he is not fully (or idealy at all) hotted. then as hes aplying his hots use the HoJ and burst hard. also try and catch him out of tree form (especaly easy if your playing with a warlock) AND without hots. in that situation no matter his resil you should be able to burst him down fast enough.

as for your slow. your slow is constant. because of persuit of justice everybody else is already moving 15 pct slower than you. so with work it would be fair to give you a 35 pct slow. but honestly that would reduce your burst damage and confuse a lot of people who only PVP / play casualy. so i think its best that they leave you in your CURENT OP ness.

in short. with a LOT AKA a shit ton of work, certain aspects of your plan would be reasonable, but knowing bliz they'l just make it a pasive slow like rogues poisens. meh

[1nsanity]

god this shit never ends. lets make this clear. IF YOU DIE TO A RET IN A HOJ YOUR BAD LEARN TO TRINKET.IF A RET CRITS YOU FOR 6K YOUR DOING IT WRONG OR HAVE NO RESIL. WHEN YOU HAVE 825 RESIL+ YOU WONT GET CRITFACED AS MUCH TO OBLIVION.yes im capping to prove a point and a 2k heal doesnt do much in pvp.(3k against non ms classes when SS procs) tbh i can tell already your a baddie asking for rets to be nerfed. oh and like i said before bubble can be dispelled. Learn to heal yourself up when the pally bubbles or run away.Use common sense. Seriously you must be a troll or must seriously suck at this game. A skilled player will kill a ret paladin 1v1. Do you see top arena players QQing about ret? No its the people stuck in the 0-1700 brackets.

can a moderator please close this thread becuase whenever its about pallies not being a free HK its always bitching and trolling amirite? How would people like it if i bitched about every single class i die to 1v1? this game is not balanced over 1v1 get it through you moronic heads.

GG Ruining another thread failures.

Wow..so what you are saying is just because top rated teams dont bitch about rets makes them perfectly balanced ,way to go clueless sheep..fyi there are glad hunters,glad enh shamans ,glad RETS and glad anything on every server in this game so dont bring the arena argument since good players will always be good regardless of class/spec..the problem here is how many rets are actually good enough to achieve gladiator or arena ratings over 2500..you actually think its the class that keeps so many rets from achieving really high ratings ?no,its the fact that most of you facerolling twats dont know 2 shits about this game to begin with.
And as to your other arguments,they arent even worth the reply,2 classes can dispell your bubble and they either require good timing or completely fail most of the time..i'm not a troll or a bad player,i got 850 resi 3/5 furious pieces 1 relentless piece and i still die ridiculously fast (or in a hoj if no trinket)while they faceroll the keyboard spamming my combat log with 100000 sources of unavoidable damage,you dont deserve any better armor or survivability than a rogue if you can gib most people that fast,rogues can kill ppl in a stun aswell but they also die in one stun , you dont.

[Wowpally]

Ok 1st of all im a full fur gear ret pally and Find it rly hard to kill any healer even hateful geard ones ??? we need some kind of ms or we need more burst Pally FTW :-* Ow yea all you pally haters L2P if you cant beat a ret pally Stop QQing when you get 4shot in a bg get resi and use a trink.. we get nurfed because of bg's and nabs geting owed because they dont know how to play there chars.

[Bigbluedruid]

Seriously is this a troll or what?

all i heard was QQ bubble op QQ even though i can dispel bubble.

Fyi once bubble is down we can be zerged and also Sacred Shield is shit in brackets except 2's if your zerged.
and bro you must be butthurt cause theres alot of swearing in there. Just becuase you cant win against Ret pallies in your cleave team doesnt mean you have to come in here like a madman screaming and swearing like a butthurt fool.

Ya blizz should just give every class a bubble since its crap anyway.

[1nsanity]

Ok 1st of all im a full fur gear ret pally and Find it rly hard to kill any healer even hateful geard ones ??? we need some kind of ms or we need more burst Pally FTW :-* Ow yea all you pally haters L2P if you cant beat a ret pally Stop QQing when you get 4shot in a bg get resi and use a trink.. we get nurfed because of bg's and nabs geting owed because they dont know how to play there chars.

wow really,i've met all kinds of classes when doying bgs and none of them were so ridiculously facerolling everyone including decent geared players except you and DK's..must be ur sick skill eh.
And btw not you or any other dps class is ever supposed to kill a good and geared healer 1v1 you twat

[Wowpally]

wow really,i've met all kinds of classes when doying bgs and none of them were so ridiculously facerolling everyone including decent geared players except you and DK's..must be ur sick skill eh.
And btw not you or any other dps class is ever supposed to kill a good and geared healer 1v1 you twat

What class do you roll you tard?

[1nsanity]

What class do you roll you tard?

A guy named Wowpally asking for more burst and an ms for his full fur geared ret who cant kill a hateful geared healer....gtfo you complete failure.

[desmortim]

Ok, first off i would like to say that i'm a long time ret paladin and I cannot understand why people are still making these suggestions. Ret paladins are a defensive burst class as far as im concerned. BoP, cleanse, freedom, sacred shield, various damage reductions/transfers and heals are really too much for us to have if we were given a snare or ms.

I mean seriously do you know how much of a luxury all those things are for any team, every arena team has some kind of concept behind it and the most common seems to be ms/burst(and/or control)/heals, having said that a ret obviously fits in the burst category. Now some of you might say well we only have "moderate" burst which to a certain extent is true, but the way i see it we bring a very large amount of "control" although it isnt what most would think of as control, all of the buffs we have that i listed earlier bring "anti-cc" you can cleanse fear/sheep you can bop blinds/intm shout and you can freedom stuns now that right there is a stupid amount of anti-cc.

I think of ret paladins as a reverse frostmage so to speak, while they are range we are melee while they aree the ultimate control we are the ultimate anti control and we both have similer burst levels. I'll go ahead and compare two very popular comps in 3v3 RRP and RMP both very similer and different with just the variation of one of the classes. While both comps can be played very offensivly or defensivly RRP imo tends to be the more offensive comp even though RMP on paper should be. Why is that? because the ret paladins defensive utility allow you to be offensive for longer periods of time with similer damage output, while a mage may have more guarenteed burst and control he is also spending a large amount of hsi time trying to set these things up, while the ret pally will simply pre emptivly pop is defensive cooldowns and allow now only more room for error but more time to play offensively. While i dont have any experience playing RMP from what ive seen playin against it they will routinly start off extremely aggressive like mostt comps attempting to force cd's retreat play defensivly and then catch someone on the rebound. But at the same time they lose MASSIVE amounts of pressure by having to peel for theyre partners where any ret pally ret pally team will simply pop cd's and remain on the offensive and that is what is overpowered.

What i would suggest us losing as opposed to healing output is some of our defensive ability whether it be our anti cc or anti burst, I for one still would like an ms/snare/interupt but giving up our healing for it is unrealistic we already have some of the best melee burst out there but we also have the ability to heal. doing that would open up so many doors for comps for a class that can already fit into just about anything. This would also lower the burst problem because instead of a pally just throwin up a 10 odd secend buff and continuing to dps they would be forced to go and peel or dps. This would make ret/caster/healer teams much much more viable considering the fact that they could take up the role ANY other melee class has the option of doing ( admitingly some better then other ) peeling for your healer/partners , which we all know all squishies are greatly in need of.

Lastly to those saying the bubble makes a ret pally an unfavorable target I couldnt disagree more most rets will wear a decent margin of pve gear simply because they fit into comps thats main goal would be to apply constant pressure "aka a cleave". but as soon as the paladins bubble is down they have nothing and its not like theyre passive defenses are all that great, most if not all classes have something similer to imp. rightous fury, sacred shield is also not that amazing in the 3v3 or 5v5 setting although it is significant mitigation it could be said that it will help anyone on the paladins team. where other classes have ways to make distance in some way as weell as other damage reduction abilities which in the long run greatly out weigh the bubble. And as far as plate goes all classes that it would effect ignore most if not all of your armor warriors stack arp to the point of negating it all during procs, dk's are highly spell damage based as well as rets and hunters, shamans and rogues both have a decent portion of theyre damage ignoring it as well through poisons and shocks/maelstrom procs.

wow why do i always post before bed lol anyway i dont know what my point is but im going to assume it was rets are a defensive burst class which in arenas equals more offense than you would think and in bgs makes you a god in the absence of a healer.

Anyway here is my armory for those who would doubt my ability to have an opinion in this thread im probably in joke gear as im not a very serious player anymore but my normal gear set is 4/5 furious 8.5 chest and t2 wep
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Desm%C3%B4rtim

[TwistedPower]

Rets Flaws, Bubble.

Rets Strengths, bubble.

Our class is balanced around this pain in the ass thing to balance. I'm sure allot of the time things get sugested for pallys but then get turned down becuase w/e is sugested pluss bubble becomes OP. Even with the nerf 50% less damage its still amazing.

We are not getting a snare, slow, silence, interupt, in this Xpac. You will have to wate untill cata before we see anything. Blizzard already said this. They also said they want to tie an effect into crusader strike. I have a feeling we will get a magical snare but that is just me.

I also like my heals, I dont want ret to turn into a stupid shadow priest who cant heal and dps at the same time like a shamen can. There is no reason we cant just have the snare without fucking ourselfs over.

[Decodelbanjo]

Generally when there is this much difference between the amout of ppl who QQ about 1. how a class needs a buff and 2. how the same class needs a nerf, and these are in the same post.... its because there is a difference in skill.

Blizzard aren't stupid, if ret needed buffs or nerfs u can be damn sure they'd get them, maybe even hotfix them if necessary. They havent so leave it alone. In PVE ret are doing really well atm, infact most melee are scaling really well. In PVP (BGs) if ur clever ur not gonna run around trying to 1v1 everyone, ppl who moan about ret losing to a kiting class have done something terribly wrong to get into this situation all the time. In PVP (arena), ret is fine if they are in a team that compliments them, ie ret+rogue (rogue brings slows, cc's and interupts) ret+druid (druid brings snares, heals and cc's)

Any good player can own a worse player, just learn to realise that maybe ur not the best player in the world/server/faction/BG. Ret is fine as it is, leave it alone.

[TwistedPower]

Generally when there is this much difference between the amout of ppl who QQ about 1. how a class needs a buff and 2. how the same class needs a nerf, and these are in the same post.... its because there is a difference in skill.

Blizzard aren't stupid, if ret needed buffs or nerfs u can be damn sure they'd get them, maybe even hotfix them if necessary. They havent so leave it alone. In PVE ret are doing really well atm, infact most melee are scaling really well. In PVP (BGs) if ur clever ur not gonna run around trying to 1v1 everyone, ppl who moan about ret losing to a kiting class have done something terribly wrong to get into this situation all the time. In PVP (arena), ret is fine if they are in a team that compliments them, ie ret+rogue (rogue brings slows, cc's and interupts) ret+druid (druid brings snares, heals and cc's)

Any good player can own a worse player, just learn to realise that maybe ur not the best player in the world/server/faction/BG. Ret is fine as it is, leave it alone.

Not realy no. If you want to talk about skill shall we talk about it on the arena junkie forums? Or... can you not post there with your skill?

[Wowpally]

A guy named Wowpally asking for more burst and an ms for his full fur geared ret who cant kill a hateful geared healer....gtfo you complete failure.

lol you still not told me your class tard i roll 2k plus in 2v2 and 3v3 and i fail ERR i think not what class you roll and what rateings so GTFO pally forums if you dont have any good Shit to say STFU