Prot build - questions

[sharkethic86]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...-w1uF11,,10522

Was prot to level a long time ago and have been ret since, just bought dual spec for prot and have been pickin up epics to make a nice set.. how does this build look? gonna be doing mostly heroics i think but im sure with good enough gear ill move into 10-25 man.. just let me know if im overlooking anything in the build or any suggestions! thanks!

[Nillo]

Take this one :

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...nl_9eYb,,10522

Divinity is pretty weak, don't take it.
Benediction is not needed.
Reckoning is bad.

Vindication is awesome.
Pursuit of Justice is awesome.
Divine Guardian is nice if you know how to use it.
Crusade is a nice threat talent.

[DX272]

mmm should go ahead and try out my spec =)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...math&n=Tuesdae

[Nillo]

mmm should go ahead and try out my spec =)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...math&n=Tuesdae

You specced Divinity and Conviction (they're not really useful) and skipped Vindication/Pursuit of Justice/Divine Guardian.
I really don't think sacrificing strong utility talents for tiny dps/survival upgrades is worth it.

[Prentice]

Take this one :

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...nl_9eYb,,10522

Divinity is pretty weak, don't take it.
Benediction is not needed.
Reckoning is bad.

Vindication is awesome.
Pursuit of Justice is awesome.
Divine Guardian is nice if you know how to use it.
Crusade is a nice threat talent.

This is a great spec. Reckoning is very weak and Benediction is unnecessary as you will find out. This is the basic build that you will want to run with. Because you will be tanking heroics, you have the flexibility to swap the 2 points out of Divine Guardian and put them into Imp Hammer of Justice. Adding to the effect of Judgments of the Just, the reduced HoJ CD is very nice in heroics.

Once you know how to keep it rolling, you will always be ~75% mana or higher. Divine Plea and Blessing of Sanctuary should be up 100% of the time.

This link is nearly identical to the one that Nillo posted but mine adds the glyph that you will likely be wanting to use for heroic and 10man tanking.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...b,wHae3-,10522

[Skiball]

Check the armory link in my profile and look at my prot spec. That is pretty much the standard one for the most hate generated with good utility and survivability. Hope this helps good luck!

[sharkethic86]

ok so i can def see benediction not being needed.. i can see how vindication and pursuit would rock and divine guardian can be useful.. so that leaves me here with 3 points left not sure

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIufdxfM0b

[Nillo]

This link is nearly identical to the one that Nillo posted but mine adds the glyph that you will likely be wanting to use for heroic and 10man tanking.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...b,wHae3-,10522

For 10 mans you might want to drop Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous for Glyph of Seal of Vengeance though.

Check the armory link in my profile and look at my prot spec. That is pretty much the standard one for the most hate generated with good utility and survivability. Hope this helps good luck!

Another spec with full Conviction shoo!

[Prentice]

You specced Divinity and Conviction (they're not really useful) and skipped Vindication/Pursuit of Justice/Divine Guardian.
I really don't think sacrificing strong utility talents for tiny dps/survival upgrades is worth it.

For my own build, I too am 3/5 Divinity. I just recently dropped Divine Sacrifice from my ret build as well. Having seen the information confirming that its usefulness has dropped off significantly since it was "fixed", it is no longer a must have talent. Since tanking is my offspec, I often find myself tanking in situations where my gear is not as strong as I, or my healers, would like it to me. Every bit of bonus healing that I can get is welcomed in those situations. I am mostly referring to ToGC encounters when one of our tanks is unavailable.

5/5 Conviction is a thing of the past since the change to Vindication. Providing a full powered Demo Shout just by attacking your target without using a GCD is awesomesauce. Also, I have said it before and I'll say it again.

Pursuit of Justice is one of the best talents ever and I will never not have it while prot or ret.

[Nillo]

ok so i can def see benediction not being needed.. i can see how vindication and pursuit would rock and divine guardian can be useful.. so that leaves me here with 3 points left not sure

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIufdxfM0b

As posted above: Spiritual attunement usually needs only 1 point (heroic mobs are not hitting hard enough for it and any raid boss will keep you full with 1 point in it)
Crusade is usually the best threat joice but Seals of the Pure gives slightly more against non DUH mobs (but those are rare)


PS: you can also pick up this spec for heroics/10 mans as you might have groups where you have to buff might:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...b,wHae3-,10522

[sharkethic86]

also what is the "tanking seal" my friend told me seal of light for the ton of extra healing but i always thought corruption since u can glyph for the expertise (great for tanks) and dots are nice on threat.. but also no builds pick up seals of the pure anymore to go along with that so i wasnt sure

[Nillo]

For my own build, I too am 3/5 Divinity. I just recently dropped Divine Sacrifice from my ret build as well. Having seen the information confirming that its usefulness has dropped off significantly since it was "fixed", it is no longer a must have talent. Since tanking is my offspec, I often find myself tanking in situations where my gear is not as strong as I, or my healers, would like it to me. Every bit of bonus healing that I can get is welcomed in those situations. I am mostly referring to ToGC encounters when one of our tanks is unavailable.

The math shows that situations where Divinity does _anything_ are close to non existant: It either adds to overheal or doesn't provide a significant amount of added health (1% more health for 5 talent points would be my estimate making it extremely weak)

Divine Guardian on the other hand provides some additional damage absorption through sacred shield, that can be used because it doubles the duration as well, so if you don't have an incredibly high number of holy paladins (had 4 in the last raid) you'll find use for it.
And even though Divine Sacrifice has finally been fixed it is still rather decent in situations (it can still absorb some 60-100k depending on your gear), where you don't have to tank (Gormok,Icehowl Breath)

[Nillo]

1)also what is the "tanking seal" my friend told me seal of light for the ton of extra healing but i always thought corruption since u can glyph for the expertise (great for tanks) and dots are nice on threat..
2)but also no builds pick up seals of the pure anymore to go along with that so i wasnt sure

Seal of Light is rather insignificant unless you are aoe tanking and it does close to no threat so you'd better use SoCorruption, because of it's high damage and the expertise it grants.

It's just because Crusade is better than SotP, but that doesn't change the fact that Seal of Corruption is the main tanking Seal.

[Prentice]

Check the armory link in my profile and look at my prot spec. That is pretty much the standard one for the most hate generated with good utility and survivability. Hope this helps good luck!

You mention good survivability in your build yet you missed 2 of the strongest survivability talents available to you. Vindication is a free Demo Shout and Divine Guardian for the buffed Sacred Shield is left out of your build too. Unless you are in the same situation as me with multiple pally healers, those are both better options than 2% crit and Imp HoJ because it appears that you aren't just tanking heroic 5mans.

Your choice of ret gear leads me to believe that you don't read any forums about optimizing your gear or specs. I'll just let you be oblivious about how2paladin.

[Prentice]

Divine Guardian on the other hand provides some additional damage absorption through sacred shield, that can be used because it doubles the duration as well, so if you don't have an incredibly high number of holy paladins (had 4 in the last raid) you'll find use for it.
And even though Divine Sacrifice has finally been fixed it is still rather decent in situations (it can still absorb some 60-100k depending on your gear), where you don't have to tank (Gormok,Icehowl Breath)

I certainly am not trying to argue with you here because I acknowledge the spec you are trying to promote as being the optimal one for normal scenarios. In my situation, however, it is not optimal and that's the only reason I am using 3/5 Divinity. I suppose I could be spec'ing 2/5 Divinity with 1/1 Divine Sacrifice but I just haven't modified my spec yet. I also agree with your assessment of the glyph choices when stepping out of 5mans and into a raid.

[redmund]

...gonna be doing mostly heroics i think but im sure with good enough gear ill move into 10-25 man..

Since you're focusing on 5 mans for now, I'd avoid both Vindication and Judgements of the Just. They're really just not necessary for any 5 mans. Take those points, and drop them in Conviction for more fun and a bit more dps in your heroics.

I'd also keep the Hammer of the Righteous glyph for 5 mans, since there are plenty of pulls with more than just 3 mobs and honestly, that glyph is a godsend for those, makes everything so much easier to control.

You'll find that the Righteous Defense glyph will mostly be wasted. The badge tanking gear is absolutely LOADED with hit (I had 301 hit at one point in just badge gear).

When you get around to raid tanking, however, definitely go with the Vindication/JotJ builds, as they provide you with far greater overall survivability and make life easier for your healers trying to keep you alive.

[Prentice]

Since you're focusing on 5 mans for now, I'd avoid both Vindication and Judgements of the Just. They're really just not necessary for any 5 mans. Take those points, and drop them in Conviction for more fun and a bit more dps in your heroics.

I'd also keep the Hammer of the Righteous glyph for 5 mans, since there are plenty of pulls with more than just 3 mobs and honestly, that glyph is a godsend for those, makes everything so much easier to control.

You'll find that the Righteous Defense glyph will mostly be wasted. The badge tanking gear is absolutely LOADED with hit (I had 301 hit at one point in just badge gear).

When you get around to raid tanking, however, definitely go with the Vindication/JotJ builds, as they provide you with far greater overall survivability and make life easier for your healers trying to keep you alive.

The progression curve from heroics to 10man TotC is not very steep. Assuming you can do 10 or 25man weekly, that'll provide you with 30 Emblems of Triumph per week. That is essentially a piece of T9(232) ever 10 days not counting emblems earned from the heroic daily. I know that I am getting a bit ahead here but it just doesn't take long to get there nowadays. Normal 10 and 25man TotC are relatively easy.

I said all that just to ask: How much hit rating appears on the T9 prot pieces and in TotC10 or 25?

Not taking Judgments of the Just is a big mistake. Most of the faster attacking mobs in the game right now are found in heroics. 20% reduced attack speed is amazing. It appears that you are just another tank that wants to compete on the damage meters regardless of your survivability and that of the others in your party.

Judgements of the Just Rank 2
Reduces the cooldown of your Hammer of Justice by 10 sec, increases the duration of your Seal of Justice effect by 1 sec and your Judgement spells also reduce the melee attack speed of the target by 20%.

[Nillo]

Since you're focusing on 5 mans for now, I'd avoid both Vindication and Judgements of the Just.
1)They're really just not necessary for any 5 mans.
2)Take those points, and drop them in Conviction for more fun and a bit more dps in your heroics.

1) That depends on your gear level: If it's rather low at least Vindication will be useful, but I agree that JotJ is not that good in heroics.
2) On the other hand Conviction is just bad, because some random 0.5%ish dps increase per point isn't needed.

[redmund]

There's not a huge amount of hit on the TotC gear. The only piece that comes to mind, actually, is the set of bracers from 10 man Beasts (Dreadscale bracers?).

The major point of my post was basically spec for your situation as it is now, not for where you want to be X number of weeks in the future after Y number of items have dropped/been acquired. It's like leveling into a raid spec, when you'd be better off with an actual leveling spec.

Conviction may not be an amazing dps/tps increase, but since this is for 5s, you can't say that seeing fat crits on your ShoR isn't awesomely satisfying As for Vindication in heroics, I honestly had no issues at all without it when starting heroics in crafted blues and a pair of crafted epics. Just personal opinion/experience on that front, though.

[Prentice]

Nillo, considering how high your defense rating and armor are right now, I think you'd be better off using the Austere Earthsiege Diamond. More HP and smaller hits taken would be a big buff to your overall survivability, imo.