Question about raid loot rules

[Canopus]

I have a question about raid loot rules. I am pretty sure there is no universal rule when it comes to divide loot between raid members.
Some guilds use loot systems, like EPGP or DKP, as far as how they divide loot. Seems fair enough. You put in effort and work during the raid, you should be able to have a fair share at the loot.

When it comes to pugs, it seems each raid leader has their own set of loot rules. From what I have seen for the most part, alot of them just have you roll Need for Main Spec, Greed for Off Spec/have an enchanter roll Greed for disenchant... Or they have everyone pass on the loot, and then do a /roll for Main Spec rolls first, then Off Spec rolls...

I have been recently been involved in a raid where the raid leader decided to change the loot rolls midway through dividing the loot. After a couple items were rolled on and handed out, the raid leader decided the rest of the loot would be divided by their own choice. The raid leader did, what they refered to as a "raid roll", or "/roll 25". From my understanding, when they /roll 25, the number comes up represents a person in the raid. Then, that person is asked if they have or want the item.

My question here is kind of a two point question:

1) Is this "raid loot" or "/roll 25" a common practice used by raid leaders?

2) Is it fair for a raid leader to change loot rules midway through the process of dividing loot?

[Pieterman]

1 yes
2 long as the rules dont become unfair

[kassy]

yes, raid roll is commonly used for items like crusader orbs, gem sacks, 22slot bags etc, as it's much cleaner to have one roll line than 25 to sort out. changing loot rules midways thru a raid or boss looting on the other hand seems a bit itchy...

[Grunthunter]

I just take everything and watch them cry

[Grogar]

Well lets take OS As an example,

It drops the Fury of the Five Flights, that should go to roll due to the fact only Physical DPS are going to want it,
It also drops the Satchel of Spoils, EVERYONE in the raid will want that, so to save time just raid roll it.

Most people use this for items that arent Class/Spec specific... Bags, Gems, Mounts etc...

[Trecus]

I just take everything and watch them cry

This. What pugs are for dude. =P

[Lausten]

The /roll 1-25 is very common on items like, Onyxia Head, Bags, Orbs, etc etc..
But it should be announced at the start, changing rules, if there was set rules before start, just seems unfair.

[Zaelot]

1. for items like bags and onyxias sack of gems or her head /25 is a pretty good idea.

2. not halfway through dividing loot for say equipment but if ur talking about ^^^ said items then why not : P

[DocQuantum]

yes, raid roll is commonly used for items like crusader orbs, gem sacks, 22slot bags etc, as it's much cleaner to have one roll line than 25 to sort out. changing loot rules midways thru a raid or boss looting on the other hand seems a bit itchy...

^^ This.

For items that "everyone" is going to roll on, the /roll 25 is MUCH cleaner than everyone spamming chat with rolls. Faster, too, since you don't have to verify the winner didn't roll more than once...

If the raid leader did the above, then did something like "roll for MS; if nobody wants, roll for OS," I'd expect it - that's the default on my server.

If they did the /roll 25 for EVERYTHING - and, worse, changed the rules half way through for everything - then it's dodgy. I'd expect mass QQing in /raid, if nothing else.

[Naft]

I like the /Roll 1-5 in a 25 man better, then the group relative to the roll rolls, it takes a little longer, but no-one can whine about someone ninja'ing to guildies. This system has become quite popular on my server (Stormreaver EU FYI)

[Lausten]

I like the /Roll 1-5 in a 25 man better, then the group relative to the roll rolls, it takes a little longer, but no-one can whine about someone ninja'ing to guildies. This system has become quite popular on my server (Stormreaver EU FYI)

Could you explain that a bit more?

[Naft]

Could you explain that a bit more?

Sure, okay let's say I lead a Ony25, we kill her without trouble...


The head, I roll /roll 1-5, and lets say it becomes 2, that means that player 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 gets to roll, the one that rolls highest... ye well (s)he wins the head, lets say:
P6 rolls 7
P7 rolls 19
P8 rolls 99
P9 Rolls 97
P10 rolls 1

Then P8 gets it, as he was in the right group, and he rolled the highest, it basicly becomes a 5 person roll.. I dunno how to explain it better (And I would like if no1 quoted me to correct my grammar, english isnt my first language...)

[WastedFire]

Could you explain that a bit more?

RL rolls a /roll 5 and takes the number 1-5 and uses that to determine what raid party gets to roll. Then each member of the party gets /roll to determine who wins. It is a better system imo simply because its more verifiable. My issue with raid roll is that the number each person has assigned to them in a raid changes depending on who is looking at their raid window. For example you will always be listed as the last member of whatever party your in, but the Raid leader wont see that only that he is the last person in his party. So if you ever see a RL give himself the bag using the raid pane as guide and the roll wasn't a 5,10,15,20,25 he is yanking your chain.

[Canopus]

I am glad that several of you have brought the point about changing loot rules midway through the rolls. Here my story, and I want your opinions on this:

Onyxia 25 man raid: The raid leader starts handing out the loot. The weapons/armor/accessories are handed out. When we got to the bags/head/gem bag, the raid leader started to roll on those items. The 22 Slot Bag came up. The raid leader posted what was going to be rolled on. I rolled a 100, and was waiting to see the other people rolls. About halfway through the rolls, the raid leader decided to change the loot rule to the "raid loot" roll. This was not discussed ahead of time. This was not posted ahead of time. The majority of the raid got upset because of this change.

- - -

I guess the lesson that can be learned here is if you are going to lead a raid, you need to establish the loot rules ahead of time to avoid these issues. A responsible and competant raid leader normally does this. You will see them post the raid info, including their Vent info, and usually list the loot rules. In all honesty, I wasn't upset about the item itself. I could care less about a 22 slot bag. It was the principle and the way it was handled that I was upset about.

[Nangz]

Yes its ok if its an item that everyone wants....

[Possiblyreefer]

1) Is this "raid loot" or "/roll 25" a common practice used by raid leaders?

2) Is it fair for a raid leader to change loot rules midway through the process of dividing loot?

1) i normally find the /roll 25 comes into play in something for example sartharion with the bag, same with onyxia and her gem bag.

2) no, but i dont tend to pug raid so : /

[Architect]

1. Yes raid roll is a much easier system for items everyone can use/want.

2. Changing loot rules mid raid is poor etiquette but what are you going to do about it? Blizz doesn't do anything about ninjas so join pugs at your own risk. If you don't like it(yes its going to happen and does on every server and has since wow began) join a guild and stop pugging.