jesus christ shadow pvp is gimped as hell

[Sturmbringe]

http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=111461

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...qw&output=html

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...15453353&sid=1

http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-st...lass-breakdown.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just want to say that I am sick and tired of the US poster Apøstle, and the Priest crowd. I am also sick and tired of the US posters Affix, Shatters & Co. and the Frost Mage crowd. I am also sick and tired with the Loladin/Retardin/Rofladin crowd.

I am also sick and tired with Blizzard.

Really Blizzard, all you do is spend your Developer time on how to ensure that whomever cries or yells or lobbies the most at the North American Damage Dealing Forums, gets buffed. It doesn`t matter that Priests and Rofladins are already topping the Arena representation charts. No, you guys at Blizzard still spend valuable Developer time on buffing Shadow for PvP, because Priests must have three viable Arena specs and Rofladins must have at least 3 viable Arena specs, and at least two more viable Arena hybrid specs thereof, a combination of the three standard specs.

And while this happens, Hunters remain dead last in 2vs2 and 3vs3 Arena representation. Thanks Blizzard. Go ahead and buff Priests, Mages and Rofladins more. In the meantime, go ahead and nerf Kill Shot as Shatters/Affix and Apostle suggest at the NA DD Forums.

Because, Hunters being dead last in Arena Representation is not enough for Blizzard. No, we must completely eliminate HUnters from the Arena, there should be exactly zero left.

Why don`t you just delete the HUnter class and leave just Priests, Frost Mages and Rofladins have at each other at the game.

[Direshadow]

"And while this happens, Hunters remain dead last in 2vs2 and 3vs3 Arena representation. Thanks Blizzard. Go ahead and buff Priests, Mages and Rofladins more. In the meantime, go ahead and nerf Kill Shot as Shatters/Affix and Apostle suggest at the NA DD Forums"


2v2 doesn't matter. Stop crying.


Also, don't you guys have the ability to trinket twice now? Once naturally and another through BW?


I will vouch for hunters getting buffed though. Even Shadow Priests can kill hunters these days.

[Nixia]

WOW, i didn't know the felhunter could stun![/b]
Think he was confusing felhunter with the Doomguard. Either way, all warlock pets trump the 15 second priest pet. In PVP, we don't even use the damned thing for what it was designed to do, we use it because it's what we need for 15 precious seconds of feeling empowered.

Doomguard can't stun either, but lets ignore that.
The difference betwin warlock and priest pet is huge, we depend on the pet to survive while you only use it to deal abit more damage and gain some mana.

ONE of our DoT heals for 25% of the damage it deals.
Haunt, Drain Life, The fact that you have your pet takes a percentage of the damage you take... not to mention that warlocks are practically built for defying Shadow Priests. A spell that makes you immune to Shadow Damage... really?

Drain life isn't what it used to be, sure we could still use it but we have better things to do.
We no longer have the ability to be immune to shadow damage, it was deleted in 3.0.

So your sw hits for ~800? Damn you need more spell power.
Spell Power doesn't matter, we have hardly any burst spells and dots don't do much when you're getting raped in the face by a melee who can slow you, silence you, or in some cases, drag you back into melee when you get some distance on him. While you can push a button and get a ghetto blink sort of spell, we're stuck with trying to gtfo of whatever melee chaos we happen to me in. And don't you fucking dare point to dispersion because it does NOTHING in those situations except delay our death.

Affliction warlocks have the same problem, sure we can use teleport to get some distance but any good rogue/warlock/death knight will save their gap closing abilitys for that situation.

The only two burst spells we have is one that actually hurts us when we use it, and another that has a 6 second cooldown and a cast time, and even then the combined damage of BOTH used at the same time never matches up to the damage a warlock can do in the same amount of time.

Please tell me what ability affliction warlocks use to burst, the OP have already said he's mind blast deals up to 4k non crit.

The healing is based on the damage of the spell, if the damage is absorbed then we're healed for 0, the damage is pathetic and your horror effect disarms for 10 sec. I'd say death coil and psychic horror is equal.
Actually Death Coil not only deals damage and heals you, but it also causes your target to run, which means you have the ability to gain distance better, while our psychic horror only causes our target to stand in place. In addition, the damage it deals puts mounting pressure on the target. Granted they only have 1 or no weapon, but it still seems that they manage to stun me or slow me some how.

Making the target run is sometimes very good but, it sometimes make the target run towards you. Most people (including myself) hate rng and thats exactly what that is.
Death coil is sometimes better and sometimes worse IMO.

Its still 5 sec without a weapon.
Once again, melee still have tricks up their sleeve to slow us down and keep us in melee range, even if they don't have a weapon. Honestly, 5 seconds of someone not having a weapon is not very long, taking into account global cooldowns, the fact that heals have a lengthy cast time (the ones that may actually save us at least), and that one of our heaviest hitting dots and burst spells both have cast time.

Well, both warlocks and shadow priests lack mobility. Melees vs casters have been a problem through the whole expantion.

Yes you are right about that, but thats our only survival ability which doesn't have a cooldown. Priests have pw:s and heals to fill that gap.
This just demonstrates a lack of understanding that this warlock has of the Shadow Priest spec. I'm sure many other people will point their fingers to healing ourselves and the fact that we have PW:Shield. Did you know that Power Word: Shield not only puts a debuff on us that prevents us from casting it again, but it also is broken most of the time, within a second or so? Did you know that untalented, it only absorbs 2230 damage. That's nothing in PVP, especially since warlocks have been known to crit for over 7K with a single spell! Throw in the fact that dots will be ticking, and you have a pretty fucking useless spell right there.

2230 is still 2230.
Not our fault you whine on survival and then don't use your survival spells.

Shadowform reduce the damage done to you by 20% so its the same fucking thing. Why not dispell the bubble? Oh wait... You whined about felhunter before, I didn't know warlocks was able to control 2 pets at the same time :O.
Throwing out these arguments without the proper understanding of how a Shadow
Priest works is just mind boggling. Shadowform doesn't give us 20% damage reduction... why would you even think that? Why would you even begin to think that? It gives us 15% damage reduction, not 20%.

Oh sorry, i was wrong with 5%.


You whined about the setup time for shadow priests before, well big surprise! Destruction warlocks have the same setup time as you, only difference is that destro warlocks have ZERO dispel protection.
Once again... lack of knowledge. Shadow Priests do not have the same setup as a warlock. Not even close. Granted I haven't played a Warlock, but from every warlock I've encountered and fought, they do a simple 2 step process as much as they can throughout the fight. Put up Immolate.... Cast Chaos Bolt.

Do you know what our setup consists of? I'll give you the low down so you can compare.

First, we need to be able to have Vampiric Embrace up, so that any shadow damage we deal, we heal ourselves for a very small amount. Second, we need to build up Shadow Weaving up to 5 stacks for the most efficient damage. That's five global cooldowns, or 3 global cooldowns and one full, uninterrupted mind flay.. and an uninterrupted mind flay doesn't work alot of the time in PVP. Also, to clarify, our dot ticks do not count toward stacks if Shadow Weaving.

Yes... the exact same setup indeed.
[/quote]
Desto warlocks setup is
CoE
Immolate
Chaos bolt
Conflagrate

Thats takes about 6 sec to do.

They have also made a changed VE on the ptr which i think you'll like ^^

[Direshadow]

This is hilarious.

Not only do you not know anything about Shadow Priests, it seems you don't know much about your own class either.

I accidentally said Doomguard, when I meant Felguard. But it doesn't matter.. because BOTH have stuns.

Intercept 52 Charge an enemy, causing X damage and stunning it for 3 sec.

War Stomp 60 Causes X damage and stuns all enemies within 8 yards for 2 sec.



Also, I never said that we weren't using our "survivability" spells. We are.... the fact is, they don't DO ANYTHING.

And please don't bitch about your teleport spell, when you can set up to teleport behind a LoS object.


Also, if you're trying to PVP as Afflic, then that's something entirely different.

[Theedy]

Some real bullshit here in this thread..
Shadowpriest is really playable in arena.. the difference between lets say destruction lock, elemental shaman and some other specs is the fact that shadowpriest
requires you to press more than two button to succeed.. its sad but true.

Shadowpriests have weak points like any other spec has.

You whined about the setup time for shadow priests before, well big surprise! Destruction warlocks have the same setup time as you, only difference is that destro warlocks have ZERO dispel protection.

if destruction would have dispel protection it would just op.. if you say destruction burst isnt a joke right now you are a retard..

[Direshadow]

Also, argue against Warlocks being built to counter shadow priests moar plz

* Shadow Ward
* Instant cast
* 12% of base mana
* Absorbs X shadow damage. Lasts 30 sec.

No patch details this being removed. I may have misworded the "immune" part... but come on...

* After being hit with a spell, you have a X% chance to gain Nether Protection, reducing all damage by that spell school by 30% for 8 sec.

+

Soul Link...


Yeah, Shadow Priests have the same kind of protection. >

[Direshadow]

Some real bullshit here in this thread..
Shadowpriest is really playable in arena.. the difference between lets say destruction lock, elemental shaman and some other specs is the fact that shadowpriest
requires you to press more than two button to succeed.. its sad but true.

Shadowpriests have weak points like any other spec has.

if destruction would have dispel protection it would just op.. if you say destruction burst isnt a joke right now you are a retard..

Either way, something needs to change.

You're either going into the Arena against 2 button DK face rollers OR you are one of those 2 button DK face rollers. Either way, it's a god damned struggle to PVP as a Shadow Priest. I still don't believe people when they flash their uber ratings and claim that they did it as shadow.

I really don't. I'm sorry. It's even gotten to the point where some of the top tier arena players who actually ARE specc'd Shadow are coming out and either quitting or saying that something needs to change.

[Theedy]

Either way, something needs to change.

You're either going into the Arena against 2 button DK face rollers OR you are one of those 2 button DK face rollers. Either way, it's a god damned struggle to PVP as a Shadow Priest. I still don't believe people when they flash their uber ratings and claim that they did it as shadow.

I really don't. I'm sorry. It's even gotten to the point where some of the top tier arena players who actually ARE specc'd Shadow are coming out and either quitting or saying that something needs to change.

yea something needs to change.. but blizzard should start nerfing the op classes not buffing every low represented spec into oblivion to nerf them again after 2 seasons..

Im going into the arena against 2 button warriors elemental shamans and retardins.. yea even elemental is now one of the faceroll specs..
sitting at 2526 in 2s with shadowpriest/rogue and 2405 with shadowplay.. you may watch the matchhistories.. just look at the damage dealed.No im not a Smit0r:P
Or you may watch my movie(s)..

[Nixia]

Feels like we are going to off-topic here.

I agree with you that shadow could need some kind of survival buff, i've suggested that many times on this forums, like disperison also heal you for 36% of your health.

Blizzard have had big problems balancing PvP this expantion and they've said there goal is to make all classes have atleast 1 viable pvp spec, and priests have disc.
I know that sucks for shadow priests but its not much we can do about it. Lets hope they don't mess up PvP in Cataclysm.

[Direshadow]

yea something needs to change.. but blizzard should start nerfing the op classes not buffing every low represented spec into oblivion to nerf them again after 2 seasons..

Im going into the arena against 2 button warriors elemental shamans and retardins.. yea even elemental is now one of the faceroll specs..
sitting at 2526 in 2s with shadowpriest/rogue and 2405 with shadowplay.. you may watch the matchhistories.. just look at the damage dealed.No im not a Smit0r:P
Or you may watch my movie(s)..

Okay.... well that's just it...

Shadow Priest / Rogue

or

Shadowplay....



DKs and Rets and other classes can do almost anything. The fact that those two comps are like.. the only 2 comps that are actually viable... says something. And I do agree they should nerf some classes. I'd even like that MORE then buffs to my spec. I'm sick of Warlocks critting for 1Gajilion damage, or a DK focusing me with his pet and gargoyle.

[Direshadow]

Feels like we are going to off-topic here.

I agree with you that shadow could need some kind of survival buff, i've suggested that many times on this forums, like disperison also heal you for 36% of your health.

Blizzard have had big problems balancing PvP this expantion and they've said there goal is to make all classes have atleast 1 viable pvp spec, and priests have disc.
I know that sucks for shadow priests but its not much we can do about it. Lets hope they don't mess up PvP in Cataclysm.

You know what's been helping me, surprisingly, during the hallow's eve holiday?

Tricky Treats...

Being able to disperse and then use a 4% speed buff has done wonders for when I'm duelling or in BGs.

Hint Hint, Blizz.

[Theedy]

Feels like we are going to off-topic here.

I agree with you that shadow could need some kind of survival buff, i've suggested that many times on this forums, like disperison also heal you for 36% of your health.

Blizzard have had big problems balancing PvP this expantion and they've said there goal is to make all classes have atleast 1 viable pvp spec, and priests have disc.
I know that sucks for shadow priests but its not much we can do about it. Lets hope they don't mess up PvP in Cataclysm.

yea
Dispersion used to heal 36% back in wotlk beta times.. it was great!
imp. Shadowform should give us a x sec freedom and maybe a little speedrun increase..

I'd also like to see an instant proc or ondispel thing like warlocks have..
"If your Vampiric Touch is dispelled the cast time of your next Mindblast or Vampiric Touch is increased by 100%".
Or
"If you are interrupted while casting Vampiric Touch or Mindblast your next Shadow Spell is instant and ignores any Spell Locking abilities and can be cast while silenced."
Similar to the firemage proc..

But like i said it would be much better to nerf the op specs first..

Sadly not able to post suggestions in the us forums because im from europe

[Omanley]

in terms of dps pvp:

enhancement shaman, elemental shaman, shadowpriest, moonkin <<<arms warrior<<dk<<<ret<warlock<<<<<hunter, rogue, frostmage,

in terms of healers:

resto shaman<<<<resto druid<<<< holy/prot pal<<<<<<disci

you´ve got gladiator with shaman ( supposedly ) but i bet it was with resto

enh/ele are really tough, ridiciously low hp, view survivability, view cc, view utility ( since our pvp totem keep getting nerfed ) shaman is a victim class

spriests have it tough as well, yes, but it´s not the only spec which sucks ( i havent even included specs like fury, fire, arcane, bm, mm, combat, sublety and so on, because they are to rare/exotic, also keep in mind that pure dps classes have the roughly same gameplay, so they dont neccesarily need more than 1 spec viable in pvp )

pvp from classic to now:

tanks: no place in pvp ( which still should be the case ) in classic, now they do enough damage so that they are immortal pvp´ers with ( in case of prot warri atleast ) shit loads of utility

hybrids: have specialiced so much in their corresponding tree´s that you can hardly call them hybrid´s anymore. still they are technically hybrids, which leads them ( more or less ) to do less dmg as

pure dps: while being more "in line" with others through classic, hunters, rogues, mages and warlocks have achieved through continuous bitchin and whinin a burst damage which is unreal. rogues killing you in stunlock despite 900+ resilience, hunters nuking you with instants down to 30% life in 5 seconds ( again, 900+ resil ), warlocks, ripping you a new one with 9k chaosbolts and inflagrates and frostmages, being able to freeze more than a high performance fridge, having 4 clones and a pet, a shield, an iceblock, a silence, a stun and sick burst should you be frozen

healing: as it´s pretty hard to keep anything alive against pure dps classes, healers got raised in their survivability to match that, which leads to hybrids having a hard time against those as well.

dk´s: able to do terrific dps and tanking in all trees, being viable in pvp in all trees.

[Shamb]

OP sucks... that's all this thread is.

On top of that saying disc priests are bad in pvp . . . yeah fuckin right. That's why there are so many RMP teams out there...

[Daedius]

Just wait til Blizz gives all classes with healing capability Dispel Magic... then Shadow Priests will be totally useless !

[Clarkis2001]

I'm not going to read this entire post because it's ridiculous.

Is Shadow the top PvP spec? Of course not. But as long as every class has at least one PvP viable spec then gtfo.

Affliction was the way to go for a long time for Warlocks and I found it incredibly boring but I did it because it worked. Now depending on comp I can choose between Affliction or Destruction. I guess I'm a lucky class for the time being.

However Shadow is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I know two great Shadow Priests on the Shattered Hand server that will blow anyone up. I see where you're coming from as it's not a terribly common spec to play but it is far from shit... VERY FAR!

You just don't have enough practice with it because, as you mentioned, you cannot mess up or you'll die. Welcome to a Warlock's game! Sure we can blow someone up or DoT and run but a badly timed Teleport, Death Coil, Howl or Shadowfury and peace out.

Also have you tried Affliction/Shadow/Resto? I hear it's amazing: if the Priest is in trouble they can use Dispersion, the Warlock has Soul Link and both of the DPS can heal themselves to varying degrees and the healer can target whoever is getting focused.

So anyway there are many comps that do well with a Shadow Priest and the spec is not trash at all (that is definitely Balance Druids I'm afraid... but their other two specs are decent). Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more until your eyes bleed.

Duels teach you a lot about how to beat classes/specs and I'd highly recommend you just dedicate a lot of time to them. I am certainly not an amazing PvP player but I do love that part of the game and can hold my own. This approach did wonders for me so I suggest it to everyone!

[Theedy]

in terms of dps pvp:

enhancement shaman, elemental shaman, shadowpriest, moonkin <<<arms warrior<<dk<<<ret<warlock<<<<<hunter, rogue, frostmage,

I'd say
Moonkin < Shadowpriest , Enhancement Shaman << Feral, Elemental Shaman, Ret << Hunter, DK, Warlock, Rogue <<< Frostmage, Arms Warrior.

Warrior currently just outdamages everything in highrated games and Frostmages got the best Control combined with good burst and good survivalability.

in terms of healers:

resto shaman<<<<resto druid<<<< holy/prot pal<<<<<<disci

Restoshaman< Resto Druid, Discpriest <<<< HolyProt pal

you´ve got gladiator with shaman ( supposedly ) but i bet it was with resto

yea with shadowplay in 3s and with rogue in 2s..

enh/ele are really tough, ridiciously low hp, view survivability, view cc, view utility ( since our pvp totem keep getting nerfed )

yea but ele has huge amount of burst and enh has very good controled damage especially against frostmages

[Skullmaster]

Perhaps, and this is just a CRAAAAZY notion, you could research a class before choosing it? Seriously, if you come on here and moan without reading up on the subject first, all you are going to be faced with is absolute flame.

Oh, and don't take the Lord's name in vain asswipe :P.

[Pud]

You know I was like you once playing a gimped class and spec doomed for fail. But I grew tired of seeing all the other classes succeeding where I could not so I decided it was time for a change, I rerolled a pally. Sure they weren't the best during BC but when WOTLK came it was like a new door opened for me! whats that? I have insane burst and great survivability in pvp? what? you actually want me for dps and not as a healer?! amazing! It was like a whole new world! Soon all the worlds greatest delights where at my door step money, hot elf chicks, fast cars it was endless and I was respected by my allies and feared by my enemy's. So do what me and thousands of others have done, reroll a pally! I guarantee you'll be happy.

or just go DK lawl.

[KresnikHellfire]

Just wait til Blizz gives all classes with healing capability Dispel Magic... then Shadow Priests will be totally useless !

We need better dispell protection and possibly more damage on VT, imo.

(if you're being focused, it's pretty much impossible to get VT up. And if you're focusing a healer, even in full PvE gear in battlegrounds, they just ignore the damage, dispell it and carry on healing. They also dispell mind trauma which is our healing debuff gone...)