Lay on Hands (Merged)

[Narit]

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK


I hate this nerf. This was my key to being able to take on 5+ people in wsg while carrying the flag.

once again: FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[talii]

If you're tanking anything serious, it's very nice to have. It's our version of Last Stand, because AD will usually only proc once when it's needed. I don't mean to be the elitist one, but let me know when you get past heroic beasts

if you need to be saved from a hit that would otherwise kill you so frequently this is a serious nerf, perhaps you should consider better cooldown management between yourself and your healer(s).

also comparing loh to last stand is ... well they're simply far from equivalent. ardent defender is the closest thing a paladin has to last stand and guess what, shorter cooldown and it does the work in auto procing for you, also the health is not lost at any point. but if you want to keep it so bad, perhaps promote giving warriors an instant cast self heal on a long cooldown, say for 50% of their health, i'm sure they'd love it even tho they get by just fine without such an ability.

[Anchor]

No. Just... no. Our version of last stand? It has a giant cooldown. It's an oh shit button, but if you're relying on it you're doing something wrong.

No one relies on it. Cooldowns are oh shit buttons.

[WorldTree]

i'm not well versed with a priest's arsenal of healing abilities but i'm pretty sure there is no instant cast full heal. for shaman the closest thing they can do is if they're spec to have nature's swiftness use that combined with a healing wave and hope for a crit which still may not heal to full. this could be used in conjuction with tidal force to make this instant cast heal have an extremely high chance to crit possibly 100%, however that's making use of 2 different (2 and 3 minute respectively) cooldowns that unless macroed together will till take more time to pull off than loh.

2 and 3 mins CD. So, meaning if you save them up, you can use them once every 3 mins.
meaning you can use it for 6 times within 1 CD of a pally's LoH.

6 times.

And omg it's like 2 more buttons to push. (which can be done by a marco)

Not that different from LoH and it's usable in arena.

[telemain]

So you're on your shadow priest but you didn't dispel his bubble?

And apparently the paladin in his fight has some secret mod that won't dispel vamp touch if he doesn't want it to. I want a mod that lets me dispel selectively.

No one relies on it. Cooldowns are oh shit buttons.

Clearly he is. Invalid.unknown sums it up quite nicely right above your post though.

[Buffwhite]

Ok id just like to say first that im not aware how it works with other classes or if they're receiving similar changes but:

Dont priests have a similar spell that heals them up to full or very close?

Dont shamans have one aswell?

In case im missing smth, why are we exactly receiving this?

There is a spell called Desperate Prayer that is instant cast. It heals for maybe around 6k with about 1900 sp. And somewhere around 10k if it crits (unless MS effect is on you). 10 points into Holy tree. On like a 2 min cd or somethin like that. Shadow Priests don't have it, since nothing in the Holy Tree is appealing enough to go deep enough to get it.

[WorldTree]

Desperate Prayer is a self-instance 2 min CD heal, but it hardly heals for as much as LoH does. PvP Disc specs have enough points to get it, and for PvP Holy it's a no-brainer, but I haven't heard about Shadow specs going down into Holy to spec for it.

gee, a 2mins CD is not as powerful as a 20 mins CD skill. Go figure. It can be used 10 times before the other CD is up.

[Powerogue]

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK


I hate this nerf. This was my key to being able to take on 5+ people in wsg while carrying the flag.

once again: FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

case in point?

[talii]

2 and 3 mins CD. So, meaning if you save them up, you can use them once every 3 mins.
meaning you can use it for 6 times within 1 CD of a pally's LoH.

6 times.

And omg it's like 2 more buttons to push. (which can be done by a marco)

Not that different from LoH and it's usable in arena.

no shaman healing spells grant mana to the target nor do they heal by percentage (much less 100%). pretty big difference. but i'd gladly let pallies use loh in arenas and on themselves if shaman could get bubbles also you're overlooking the need to get both of those cooldowns via talents, they're not doled out to every totem wielding shaman out there.

to elaborate more on your inquiry as to why this is being tested. i believe it's to prevent unintended use by holy pallies to gain mana and an unneeded extra survivability on demand button. i honestly see no reason to take it from ret specifically but if you take it from 2 specs, wouldn't be right to not take it from them all.

edit: small addition

[Ronark]

also to elaborate more on your inquiry as to why this is being tested. i believe it's to prevent unintended use by holy pallies to gain mana and an unneeded extra survivability on demand button. i honestly see no reason to take it from ret specifically but if you take it from 2 specs, wouldn't be right to not take it from them all.

Make it so:
>>>You cant get mana for yourself when LoH is used.
>>> LoH does X% less healing when RF is up.

Fixed.

[Thallidomaniac]

also to elaborate more on your inquiry as to why this is being tested. i believe it's to prevent unintended use by holy pallies to gain mana and an unneeded extra survivability on demand button. i honestly see no reason to take it from ret specifically but if you take it from 2 specs, wouldn't be right to not take it from them all.

Better yet, remove the mana restoration from LoH if self-casting LoH as a mana battery is that much of a problem. However, I wouldn't think Holy would use it that often as a mana battery, as the Improved LoH gives a physical damage reduction buff, which is great for tanks.

[greysin]

i promise you, 100% of the whining is because bads can't use it in BGs anymore to take on 4 people at once

i have a protadin and if i had to use LOH regularly i'd find a healer that wasn't asleep most of the time

this is a nerf to get them ready for BGs and hopefully will help balance paladins, they still have bubble which is still the BEST SPELL IN THE GAME FOR ANY SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE

you can still get off a huge holy light while bubbled even if it's dispelled asap

LOH should be a deep holy talent just like bubble should be

[Narit]

case in point?

angryness

[Ronark]

i promise you, 100% of the whining is because bads can't use it in BGs anymore to take on 4 people at once

i have a protadin and if i had to use LOH regularly i'd find a healer that wasn't asleep most of the time

this is a nerf to get them ready for BGs and hopefully will help balance paladins, they still have bubble which is still the BEST SPELL IN THE GAME FOR ANY SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE

you can still get off a huge holy light while bubbled even if it's dispelled asap

LOH should be a deep holy talent just like bubble should be

Shattering Throw ---> Shield bash.

Silenced for however long, GG.

[Thallidomaniac]

you can still get off a huge holy light while bubbled even if it's dispelled asap

Umm, I don't recall my HLs healing for that much as Prot PvP Spec. (Not to be confused with Prot Healing, that is.) Usually, my HL crits are in the 12-13k range, which is about less than 1/2 of my health bar. Not to mention that a Prot's mana pool only allows 4-5 HLs at max, and that with our DP up, those HLs are halved.

Shattering Throw ---> Shield bash.

Silenced for however long, GG.

Not to mention Prot PvP Warriors only need to Shattering Throw to get rid of a Pally bubble plus a 3 second silence thanks to Gag Order.

[Rushuna]

if you need to be saved from a hit that would otherwise kill you so frequently this is a serious nerf, perhaps you should consider better cooldown management between yourself and your healer(s).

also comparing loh to last stand is ... well they're simply far from equivalent. ardent defender is the closest thing a paladin has to last stand and guess what, shorter cooldown and it does the work in auto procing for you, also the health is not lost at any point. but if you want to keep it so bad, perhaps promote giving warriors an instant cast self heal on a long cooldown, say for 50% of their health, i'm sure they'd love it even tho they get by just fine without such an ability.

As a pally healer, with 2 Pally tanks as MTs cause we can't find any other tanks.... I can tell you the following:

The number of times our MTs have had to use LoH to save themselves are few and far between.

The number of times I have had to use LoH on myself with Glyph of Divinity is astronomical.

This is a nerf to Holy Pallies more than it is to tanks.

Also, note the following

Ardent Defender = Last Stand = Survival Instincts = 36-point talent of DK's choice
Divine Protection = Shield Wall = Barkskin = Icebound Fortitude
??? = Enraged Regeneration = Frenzied Regeneration = Rune Tap

???s used to be LoH. Not anymore, now they have only 2 oh snap CDs.

[talii]

it's always seemed to me that this spell was intended as a last effort to save someone other than yourself. perhaps this is blizzard's intention of the spell and they're strictly enforcing that... perhaps a better answer could be found on their ptr or paladin class forums, this is after all just mmo-champion

???s used to be LoH. Not anymore, now they have only 2 oh snap CDs.

quantity does not equal quality. just because other tanks may have more cooldowns does not mean the ones available to paladins aren't sufficient.

[Slavemaker]

the only thing i can think of, outside the bg idiots, is you don't get the mana regen like you did before from it, now you only get the regen from the glyph.

Lay of Hands combined with the glyph used on your self gives you somewhere around 9k mana, so it is a reasonable nerf for pve as well.

Meh the only thing I will miss is being able to use it on my prot paladin... Just means I'll continue using it to give healers mana.

[Ronark]

Lay of Hands combined with the glyph used on your self gives you somewhere around 9k mana, so it is a reasonable nerf for pve as well.

lolwat

[Bludgeoned]

As a ret pally, i find myself ooming on certain fights. I dont use LoH that much but i do use it midfight to get mana back. this is gonna suck because going oom as a ret pally is just plain retarded :'(