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  1. #81

    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    I'd like for Prot to have a way to make the LoH heal a HoT rather than a full on-Single heal.

    Something where it does, say, heal 20% max HP every 2 seconds for 10 seconds total.
    I agree with this. That way its more like the warriors Enraged Regeneration, or the druids Frenzied Regeneration

    Even if they made it a change overall, or just so that it was deep in the prot tree, added to a talent like.. Ardent Defender, or something like that.

  2. #82

    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Arganaut
    "I hope it does go live regardless of what Ghost said. Paladins have had a roll-face spec for too long. They can put ut alot of damage up front and yet you can seem to kill them unless you get lucky. When you have to burn through 3 health bars to kill someone.. thats a bit much. Example: (1)Burn through their health, (2)LoH <reset button> burn through again, (3)bubble <heal, heal> back to full again and for most Ret Pallies thats 25khp x 3 on average. Theyve needed to hit ret pallies w/ a pvp nerf bat for awhile now, you guys have one too many outs. BoF, 2 bubbles + sacred shield(yay for the nerf to that), (HoJ, Repentance<which in alot of cases between those two someone can either be killed or have 3/4 of their health taken out>) and you can heal yourself pretty much w/o interuption through most of these abilities. Even if they dont nerf it yet.. it needs to have something done to it for pvp. If you say "QQ waaaaahh no nerf i got so upset i wet myself waaaah" your not being reasonable for one and two have had it so easy for so long that any changes that occur will just prove whos good among you and who just relies on 'i win' buttons for everything"

    This made me laugh. Especially the bit about QQ'ing Pallies when it is you who come on here QQ'ing yourself. Let's disect this 10K crit wall of text - for starters which pally class do you refer too, and what class do you play before so we can comment on why you are so inept at killing them?:

    Paladins have had a roll-face spec for too long ... OK since the final patch in TBC, let's put it our there, Retri was useless for an entire Xpac, so being good for most of Wrath is fair enough I reckon.
    They can put ut alot of damage up front and yet you can seem to kill them unless you get lucky ... take more time when you type, the up front damage has been removed in about 4 different ways so get your facts straight on that. See above about your class before we comment on your inept-ness.
    (2)LoH <reset button> ... you do know it has a mega cooldown? How often have you really came across a situation when fighting a Pally and this has been a gamebreaker? It cannot be used in Arena, so I assume you dual in Goldshire?
    (3)bubble <heal, heal> ... oh the bubble! Curse the bubble. I guess you are not a warrior or priest then ...
    Theyve needed to hit ret pallies w/ a pvp nerf bat for awhile now .... hmmm, i think they have right.
    BoF ... yes, it was nerfed
    2 bubbles + sacred shield ... 1st, forbearence ... sacred shield, seems you are getting your wish anyway.
    Repentance ... oh yeah, that CC of ours, which breaks on damage (so we cannot spec RV or use SOV) and guess what, got to use lame Seal of Command or Rightousness. See above for upfront damage reductions, here is one of them. I don't know why you complain about this as an "out" every class now has some sort of CC, this is ours, 1 min CD, and our stun is 40 second cooldown when talented. Surely you cannot QQ more right?
    You can heal yourself pretty much w/o interuption through most of these abilities - Divine Shield yes, but healing as Retri is not fab you know with a 5k mana pool!?
    Please check figures around Ret's in Arena before posting. Has anyone the latest numbers of high end Ret's with 2K plus rating?

    Okay.. decent enough response. Now my turn again.

    Comment: "Paladins have had a roll-face spec for too long ... OK since the final patch in TBC, let's put it our there, Retri was useless for an entire Xpac, so being good for most of Wrath is fair enough I reckon."
    Reply: As was written in a comment after yours Ret pallies were in the same boat as most all other hybrids pre-Wrath, but they didnt suck. Only players with some skill could play them well and the rest said they sucked and rerolled.. which makes me have no respect for a player that does that. Learn to deal with the nerfs/buffs and months of suckage.. its called adjusting, but no one likes to do that. Its all about gimme the 'easy everything' button so i dont have to use my brain please.

    Comment: "They can put ut alot of damage up front and yet you can seem to kill them unless you get lucky ... take more time when you type, the up front damage has been removed in about 4 different ways so get your facts straight on that. See above about your class before we comment on your inept-ness."
    Reply: Yes i know paladins burst has been nerfed.. but when you cant kill a paladin and he's able to use the 'little' burst he has left over and over mixed w/ the CC's you can still 2-4shot<burst> people. Ive seen it happen.. and if you say it cant happen anymore then you clearly dont understand the 5 button death rotation of a paladin. And how can you comment on my ineptness? Im one of the few who roles w/ the goods and the bads of my class and havent rerolled cause i cant figure out how to play him.

    Comment: "(2)LoH <reset button> ... you do know it has a mega cooldown? How often have you really came across a situation when fighting a Pally and this has been a gamebreaker? It cannot be used in Arena, so I assume you dual in Goldshire?"
    Reply: yep i do know that.. but i also know that it can be dropped to only 11min. Arena? Man i have no issues w/ them in arenas.. but of course thats the only place anything counts right? I like arenas sure.. but i play a fair share of BG's too and thats where paladins become op. Apply same principles as arenas to bg's and the problem will go away.

    Comment: "(3)bubble <heal, heal> ... oh the bubble! Curse the bubble. I guess you are not a warrior or priest then ..."
    Reply: Priest i am. OMG NO WAI!!! Yep i dispell your bubble and unless im spec'd Disc, which im not all the time, then dispell is still a 1.5sec cast and thats more than enough time for an experienced player, such as yourself, to prevent that from happening. And one of the biggest bs things about the bubble is being able to deal damage while immune, reduced yeah.. but ive seen more often than not a pally running into a group of people popping the bubble and divine storming everyones face off.

    Comment: "Repentance ... oh yeah, that CC of ours, which breaks on damage (so we cannot spec RV or use SOV) and guess what, got to use lame Seal of Command or Rightousness. See above for upfront damage reductions, here is one of them. I don't know why you complain about this as an "out" every class now has some sort of CC, this is ours, 1 min CD, and our stun is 40 second cooldown when talented. Surely you cannot QQ more right?"
    Reply: Before it 'breaks' so effectively.. a paladin can still take out 1/4 to 1/2 of someones health. Oh i get CC's and why so many classes have them but put them in a bg situation and its a bit much. And yeah i can QQ more.. gotta love the QQ its the only way facerollers get their way w/ Blizzard, am i right? I mean im asking you cuz you should know.. since you guys got LoHs back before it even went live.

    Comment: "but healing as Retri is not fab you know with a 5k mana pool!?"
    Reply: its takes what 1 or 2 holy lights to reach full or almost full health? And dont forget the insta flash of lights you guys get while melting face which can heal for 8k. And cant you judge someone to get mana back? not ideal.. but if circumstance calls for it ya do it. Its called being an adverse player.

    And im not talking about arenas. I do like them and enjoy having fun in them but since one of the major parts of this originally non-pvp based game is pvp and ya get so many wellfare epics from running bgs that give you last seasons gear,< OMG i must get this seasons gear it has 6more AP 10 more stam and for some reason spirit... alot of spirit!!> why not run bgs more. I mean ya have to anyways for current seasoned gear.. so technically its just as important just a bit more difficult cuz your only 1 person among a sea of noobs playing w/ themselves at LM. So i say apply same rules arena has to bg's.

  3. #83
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Reply: As was written in a comment after yours Ret pallies were in the same boat as most all other hybrids pre-Wrath, but they didnt suck. Only players with some skill could play them well and the rest said they sucked and rerolled.. which makes me have no respect for a player that does that. Learn to deal with the nerfs/buffs and months of suckage.. its called adjusting, but no one likes to do that. Its all about gimme the 'easy everything' button so i dont have to use my brain please.
    In pre-Wrath, patch 3.0, yes Rets were OP due to DS hitting for 110% Weapon damage as Holy, alongside SotM/SoB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Reply: Yes i know paladins burst has been nerfed.. but when you cant kill a paladin and he's able to use the 'little' burst he has left over and over mixed w/ the CC's you can still 2-4shot<burst> people. Ive seen it happen.. and if you say it cant happen anymore then you clearly dont understand the 5 button death rotation of a paladin. And how can you comment on my ineptness? Im one of the few who roles w/ the goods and the bads of my class and havent rerolled cause i cant figure out how to play him.
    L2Resil and not wear PvE gear in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Reply: yep i do know that.. but i also know that it can be dropped to only 11min. Arena? Man i have no issues w/ them in arenas.. but of course thats the only place anything counts right? I like arenas sure.. but i play a fair share of BG's too and thats where paladins become op. Apply same principles as arenas to bg's and the problem will go away.
    So complain about Soulstones then? Or Barkskin? Rebirth? Army of the Dead? No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Comment: Priest i am. OMG NO WAI!!! Yep i dispell your bubble and unless im spec'd Disc, which im not all the time, then dispell is still a 1.5sec cast and thats more than enough time for an experienced player, such as yourself, to prevent that from happening. And one of the biggest bs things about the bubble is being able to deal damage while immune, reduced yeah.. but ive seen more often than not a pally running into a group of people popping the bubble and divine storming everyones face off.
    Yes, let me interru---- Opps, my bad, I can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Reply: Before it 'breaks' so effectively.. a paladin can still take out 1/4 to 1/2 of someones health. Oh i get CC's and why so many classes have them but put them in a bg situation and its a bit much. And yeah i can QQ more.. gotta love the QQ its the only way facerollers get their way w/ Blizzard, am i right? I mean im asking you cuz you should know.. since you guys got LoHs back before it even went live.
    L2 Resil

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    Reply: its takes what 1 or 2 holy lights to reach full or almost full health? And dont forget the insta flash of lights you guys get while melting face which can heal for 8k. And cant you judge someone to get mana back? not ideal.. but if circumstance calls for it ya do it. Its called being an adverse player.
    L2Interrupt a 3 second cast to completely shut us down for 10-15 seconds.

    And FoL heals for 2-3k TOPS in a PvP environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli
    And im not talking about arenas.
    You just lost all credit here.

  4. #84

    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkli

    Okay.. decent enough response. Now my turn again.

    Comment: "Paladins have had a roll-face spec for too long ... OK since the final patch in TBC, let's put it our there, Retri was useless for an entire Xpac, so being good for most of Wrath is fair enough I reckon."
    Reply: As was written in a comment after yours Ret pallies were in the same boat as most all other hybrids pre-Wrath, but they didnt suck. Only players with some skill could play them well and the rest said they sucked and rerolled.. which makes me have no respect for a player that does that. Learn to deal with the nerfs/buffs and months of suckage.. its called adjusting, but no one likes to do that. Its all about gimme the 'easy everything' button so i dont have to use my brain please.

    Comment: "They can put ut alot of damage up front and yet you can seem to kill them unless you get lucky ... take more time when you type, the up front damage has been removed in about 4 different ways so get your facts straight on that. See above about your class before we comment on your inept-ness."
    Reply: Yes i know paladins burst has been nerfed.. but when you cant kill a paladin and he's able to use the 'little' burst he has left over and over mixed w/ the CC's you can still 2-4shot<burst> people. Ive seen it happen.. and if you say it cant happen anymore then you clearly dont understand the 5 button death rotation of a paladin. And how can you comment on my ineptness? Im one of the few who roles w/ the goods and the bads of my class and havent rerolled cause i cant figure out how to play him.

    Comment: "(2)LoH <reset button> ... you do know it has a mega cooldown? How often have you really came across a situation when fighting a Pally and this has been a gamebreaker? It cannot be used in Arena, so I assume you dual in Goldshire?"
    Reply: yep i do know that.. but i also know that it can be dropped to only 11min. Arena? Man i have no issues w/ them in arenas.. but of course thats the only place anything counts right? I like arenas sure.. but i play a fair share of BG's too and thats where paladins become op. Apply same principles as arenas to bg's and the problem will go away.

    Comment: "(3)bubble <heal, heal> ... oh the bubble! Curse the bubble. I guess you are not a warrior or priest then ..."
    Reply: Priest i am. OMG NO WAI!!! Yep i dispell your bubble and unless im spec'd Disc, which im not all the time, then dispell is still a 1.5sec cast and thats more than enough time for an experienced player, such as yourself, to prevent that from happening. And one of the biggest bs things about the bubble is being able to deal damage while immune, reduced yeah.. but ive seen more often than not a pally running into a group of people popping the bubble and divine storming everyones face off.

    Comment: "Repentance ... oh yeah, that CC of ours, which breaks on damage (so we cannot spec RV or use SOV) and guess what, got to use lame Seal of Command or Rightousness. See above for upfront damage reductions, here is one of them. I don't know why you complain about this as an "out" every class now has some sort of CC, this is ours, 1 min CD, and our stun is 40 second cooldown when talented. Surely you cannot QQ more right?"
    Reply: Before it 'breaks' so effectively.. a paladin can still take out 1/4 to 1/2 of someones health. Oh i get CC's and why so many classes have them but put them in a bg situation and its a bit much. And yeah i can QQ more.. gotta love the QQ its the only way facerollers get their way w/ Blizzard, am i right? I mean im asking you cuz you should know.. since you guys got LoHs back before it even went live.

    Comment: "but healing as Retri is not fab you know with a 5k mana pool!?"
    Reply: its takes what 1 or 2 holy lights to reach full or almost full health? And dont forget the insta flash of lights you guys get while melting face which can heal for 8k. And cant you judge someone to get mana back? not ideal.. but if circumstance calls for it ya do it. Its called being an adverse player.

    And im not talking about arenas. I do like them and enjoy having fun in them but since one of the major parts of this originally non-pvp based game is pvp and ya get so many wellfare epics from running bgs that give you last seasons gear,< OMG i must get this seasons gear it has 6more AP 10 more stam and for some reason spirit... alot of spirit!!> why not run bgs more. I mean ya have to anyways for current seasoned gear.. so technically its just as important just a bit more difficult cuz your only 1 person among a sea of noobs playing w/ themselves at LM. So i say apply same rules arena has to bg's.
    You sir are a assO go play your class right.

  5. #85

    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    LoH dosn't prevent core ability's, zerker rage/bloodrage..
    LoH dosn't reduce damage by 10% (enrage from prot talents)
    LoH heals all at once..
    LoH dosn't need to be coupled with another tanking cooldown to be good.
    30% hp != 100% hp.

    LoH can save you when you have no heals, enraged regen will tick on or two times before you get hit and die. (Assuming your heals are preoccupied/stunned/bad)...

    Considering most, if not all warriors, use enraged regen at the same time as last stand (this is assuming you know you won't need to save it, IE third meteor fists when pugging the fire VoA boss, where you're not sure the healers alone can keep you in good condition.) We basically have 2 real tanking cooldowns and a sub par one, or a better last stand + shield wall...

    That said, I don't think LoH should be nerfed, I think it's a stupid change and should stay as is. The prot pally is part of the raid too, and him being alive probably means the rest of us will be as well. While fighting paladins in battlegrounds, or world pvp, or whatever, even if it may be annoying to kill them. This is not a good reason to nerf an ability that could probably save (or has saved) your raid..

  6. #86
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenryusho
    LoH dosn't prevent core ability's, zerker rage/bloodrage..
    LoH dosn't reduce damage by 10% (enrage from prot talents)
    LoH heals all at once..
    LoH dosn't need to be coupled with another tanking cooldown to be good.
    30% hp != 100% hp.

    LoH can save you when you have no heals, enraged regen will tick on or two times before you get hit and die. (Assuming your heals are preoccupied/stunned/bad)...

    Considering most, if not all warriors, use enraged regen at the same time as last stand (this is assuming you know you won't need to save it, IE third meteor fists when pugging the fire VoA boss, where you're not sure the healers alone can keep you in good condition.) We basically have 2 real tanking cooldowns and a sub par one, or a better last stand + shield wall...

    That said, I don't think LoH should be nerfed, I think it's a stupid change and should stay as is. The prot pally is part of the raid too, and him being alive probably means the rest of us will be as well. While fighting paladins in battlegrounds, or world pvp, or whatever, even if it may be annoying to kill them. This is not a good reason to nerf an ability that could probably save (or has saved) your raid..
    Which is why it is less useful than the Warrior equivalent- It either overheals most of the time, and effectively does nothing, or you use it too late and it does nothing. For this exact reason, Blizzard doesn't consider LoH as a tanking cooldown.

    Last time I checked, you can also cancel the buff when you need to Zerker rage to avoid a Fear effect- or you can just play smart and use ER AFTER you use Zerker rage.

  7. #87

    Re: Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinyknight
    This, combined with the sacred shield change, is obviously a nerf to all the retri pallies soloing Chillmaw.
    :

    If you used it to solo Chillmaw then your just bad. Bubble heal to full is where its at.

    I like how many people think LoH is so OP in PvP. BG's are serious business guys!

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