Is Elitist Jerks wrong for a change? (Regarding Unholy DPS)

[Gunmoku]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...els&n=Katzghan

OK, got a small problem. I used Elitist Jerks' recent Unholy thread and the 17/0/54 build (See: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-u...i_ever_wanted/ ) to try out returning to a 2-hand weapon build after putting a DW Frost setup through some paces. I followed the guidelines (Proper runeforged weapon, gems for almost nothing but strength, aimed for the hit cap, etc.) and I found I am doing several hundred DPS LESS (I'm doing 2900 compared to 3100 on average) than my previous Frost build. Biggest thing to get used to was the fact Obliterate was consuming Diseases every hit, so I decided to completely remove it from my hotbars. But after some testing in both Heroics, Raids, and simple wailing on target dummies, it's hard to maintain around 3000 DPS. I float around 2900-2950 DPS with Horn of Winter active along with Victor's Call active. I can spike to 3100 if I time swings right, but it's mostly luck of the draw.

So, I pose this question. Is Elitist Jerks somewhat wrong in the fact that Unholy can have better sustained DPS or am I missing an important point in my setup?

[Necrodeath]

EJ isn't infallible. I stopped reading that site when I found a whole bunch of errors that stuck right out.

[Wingwraith]

Biggest thing to get used to was the fact Obliterate was consuming Diseases every hit,

You do not want to be using Oblit in an UH build anymore.
In case you didn't get the memo: "Unholy SS: It's a Love Story"

was checking out your Armory... you not really itemized for Unholy as well as you could be. Too much ArP is the biggest thing I notice right off the bat.

[Shiira]

When ej says that a dps spec is good they mean at a gear level relevant to current raid content.

Right now this means 232-258 gear in at least most slots, if you aren't at this gear level then the specs being discussed aren't really relevant to you.

[Wingwraith]

Right now this means 232-258 gear in at least most slots, if you aren't at this gear level then the specs being discussed aren't really relevant to you.

Very true.
His gear's not that bad though. Has 4pc T9 at least.
His biggest flaws may be in that ilvl219 weapon and lack of some decent trinkets...

[Mr_Bojangles]

EJ isn't infallible. I stopped reading that site when I found a whole bunch of errors that stuck right out.

If you noticed so many errors that stuck right out, why didnt you correct them?

[Jiry]

Obliterate? :

You're stating EJ has its facts wrong while you're the one being ignorant... gotta love the irony...

INB4 "he's a troll"

[Oragan]

Ej is the biggest pile of shit. I really dono what your doing wrong, i have worse gear (only got t92 set and old sigil) then you and can get 4k on the dummys just with my horn. Your rotation should go like this. Plague-icy-SS-Blood-Blood-DC-Horn-DC. Plague-icy-SS-Blood-Blood-DC-DC (repeat). Also lose the haste gems, crit is much better with the t9 4 set.

[Maleus]

Perhaps we should make our own builds and stuff again instead of copying it and then spreadshitting it or whatever? would make this game more fun I think. After all isn't an RPG about making your own character in the way you want it(no that is not an excuse for a shit character :P)

[Silent_Death]

Couple issues with this...

1) What rotation are you currently using?
2) You should be making use of SS as opposed to Obliterate (welcome to 3.2.2.. furthermore, from all intents/purposes SS will be improved further with the advent of 3.3)
3) You state that you're gemming primarily for strength.. however many of you're slots include things like haste, hit, crit.. Granted these are valued stats, there are certain restrictions to it (please read further into the Unholy DPS thread for where you are wrong in regards to this IE: Haste benefits DW significantly past 300 Haste Rating and not so much for 2H, Hit should be primarily picked up from gear and gear alone, you're crit rating is still low despite the fact that you're gemming for it.. Let wandering plague/the 4pc set bonus truly shine good sir).
4) You're using an iLevel 219 weapon.
5) You haven't provided any info in regards to actual raid boss dps (please run at least normal 10 man ToC to give us a better idea as to where you stand in regards to DPS.. Target dummies are horrendous for giving a clear picture as to damage done/dps).
6) Finally, ArP is very low on the stat weights chart for unholy (also take a closer look at the EJ thread for info about this) as it only benefits white hits/blood strikes which are both low on you're damage done chart.

I'd gladly provide you with my armory link but I logged out in my tanking gear last night 8*(.

[Xenyatta]

First off, you have a lot of armor pen on gear and you chose a lot of gear with armor pen on it (when you could have chosen other things) and armor pen is useless for Unholy. You're wasting stats right there which can contribute to the loss of DPS. 2nd of all, you don't use Obliterate anymore. Clearly, you didn't do homework on Blizzard's own patch notes and you're looking for EJ to do the homework for you. Bad part is, you're risking getting outdated information which is exactly what happened. My guild has a guy who is DW Frost/2h Blood and 2 of us are Unholy. If it's a one on one, the first DK does comparable damage. When we're facing multi targets like Faction Champs, we blow his doors off. What you're fighting will also have an effect on your DPS. Maybe you need to do a little more research.

[Keh]

If you noticed so many errors that stuck right out, why didnt you correct them?

Because you cant. Difference in opinion or simply proving something wrong generally ends up with a ban for most people.

[metzin]

Your definitely doing something wrong. I am geared worse then you are and run a DW unholy in my frost gear and still do more DPS on a dummy then you running just HoW. I can generally hold a steady 3500 on a dummy without much trouble.

[Vongimi]

Because you cant. Difference in opinion or simply proving something wrong generally ends up with a ban for most people.

No, if you try and prove someone wrong and end up being wrong yourself, thats when you get the ban. I got a temp ban for posting something without much backup (turns out I was wrong), but ive been happily posting in the hunter class mechanics forums. Im actually one of the original ones to suggest switching up MM shot priority based on how you glyph. And that has included calling some people "wrong" persay, but more just debating things with them and throwing ideas off each other.

[Mendal]

well first of all - why do you socket for hast? So pointless imho.. and with your gear you should be over 3k easy..
also - pointless to get so much armpen..
just stick more for simple str. and yeah - what rotation are you using as unholy?

[Shornaal]

Haste, ArP, Obliterate... you can't say EJ is wrong if you don't do exactly what EJ says.

[Horn]

EJ usually assumes you're going to be min/maxing your dps with relevent ilvl gear for the current content available. You obviously aren't doing this: No leg armor kit, no bracer enchant, no cape enchant, 24 crit boots? ??? I'm not a DK, but it would seem you haven't even stepped out of 10 man totc yet and I'm pretty sure alot of those gems are wrong.

You should probably just go blood dps. Its generally hard to mess up, the gear is abundant, and there are plenty of guides for it.

[Vongimi]

Well I think the most blatent issue is the fact you are using obliterate instead of SS :P Thats a pretty huge issue. If you dont see the talent that prevents obliterate from removing diseases, then that build obviously doesnt use obliterate.

[Maleia]

lolEJboards

[Deleted]

EJ is often wrong, people need to engage their grey matter more and be less like sheep :