Is Elitist Jerks wrong for a change? (Regarding Unholy DPS)

[aquifer]

EJ isn't infallible. I stopped reading that site when I found a whole bunch of errors that stuck right out.

EJ is no longer a place for intelligent thought, infact if you're not an officer of the site it doesn't matter what you think, if you say the sky is blue and any of the officers dont agree you will get an infraction. do it twice and you get banned.

tbh its kinda sad because in BC they were pretty great. I guess they are finally liveing up to their name.

[Jonisawsom]

Why is Obliterate no longer used?
Obliterate does, in fact, still out damage Scourge Strike on an individual strike level. However, with Dirge no longer affecting Obliterate, Obliterate builds generate substantially less runic power, and thus fall further and further behind, despite ArP scaling and the like.

That's from the FAQ section of that thread. If you also read through the rotations for each spec given I didn't see a single one of them say to use OB instead of SS. I could be wrong, but I believe Unholy is currently using OB in pvp, because as mentioned it is a stronger strike = more burst. In any case, even if I'm right, it makes no difference here.

Get rid of the haste gems and actually gem for straight strength (like you said you did but obviously didn't) and your gear would be very good for Blood dps as Horn mentioned. If you want to go Unholy, you should think about picking up another set of gear that is not so heavy with armor pen.

As a side note, a big dps increase/decrease can be seen from your weapon. I would assume that your DW Frost build had better than i219 weapons. I think you need to reread that thread if you want to stay Unholy, and follow the suggestions.

[Mephistoe]

I would agree with this. I hear EJ is still good for rogues, but there are so many inconsistencies and outright mistakes with other classes, especially when it comes to healing and tanking.

At the same time, though, you aren't taking their advice in the first place. Your gems are terrible, and you're missing enchants, to say nothing of your professions, which are just awful for dps. Given your toon's current state, you can't fault EJ for any dps loss.

EJ is often wrong, people need to engage their grey matter more and be less like sheep :

[Vongimi]

EJ is often wrong, people need to engage their grey matter more and be less like sheep :

Well, the deal is, there is WAY to much information to have to know about to do every last test and calculation yourself. Thus, EJ is a place for people to combine their knowledge. Sometimes its wrong, this is true. But the kind of people who talk about these things are VERY intelligent people who sometimes use very complex tools and strategies to test things. Its far better to see tests other people have done, and UNDERSTAND THEM, then to just never look at them. Thats the different between the sheep and the good players, actually understanding WHY that spec is the best and how to improve upon it effectively. I know so many people I have talked to (recruits for the guild) that simply said they specced the way they did because "EJ said it was a good spec".

[huangzhong9]

EJ isn't infallible. I stopped reading that site when I found a whole bunch of errors that stuck right out.

blasphemy, destroy the non-believer

[Zka]

This thread obviously shows that about 90% of players are too stupid to post on EJ.
Guys, most of you don't even seem to know
1) what is EJ about
2) what is theorycrafting
3) how to prove something wrong

Even Tun of Ensidia got banned recently for not knowing 2) and 3). They don't care who you are, if you're stupid, you get banned. EJ is not a forgiving community like this one or most other wow forums where you can post retarded shit and get away with it.

The OP's post and "reasoning" is laughable. If you think they are wrong, post on the EJ DK forums. Then have fun with your well deserved ban.

[Jonisawsom]

Well, the deal is, there is WAY to much information to have to know about to do every last test and calculation yourself. Thus, EJ is a place for people to combine their knowledge. Sometimes its wrong, this is true. But the kind of people who talk about these things are VERY intelligent people who sometimes use very complex tools and strategies to test things. Its far better to see tests other people have done, and UNDERSTAND THEM, then to just never look at them. Thats the different between the sheep and the good players, actually understanding WHY that spec is the best and how to improve upon it effectively. I know so many people I have talked to (recruits for the guild) that simply said they specced the way they did because "EJ said it was a good spec".

LoL at all the EJ haters. Sounds to me like most of them are people who did something quite silly such as the OP, got banned and now hate them for their own stupidity. Now of course we're all human and make mistakes so it's not like EJ has never, will never or can't be wrong. For the most part it is the individuals reading/posting and not the site as a whole. You need to take everything there with a grain of salt as it were.

EJ uses BiS gear for most of their testing to find the highest "theoretical" dps. So someone like the OP in lesser gear my find that even following their suggestions is not the absolute best for them, though it is likely close. Using common sense and your own testing and as VonGimli said, actually knowing and understanding your class are just as important.

Generally I find the people that "find so many obvious mistakes" on EJ (as well as other sites) are the same ones that post on these sites with crazy specs or gear sets saying their dps is better than what EJ said. But of course they never prove themselves with WWS reports, or prove EJ wrong. Usually the same type of people that won't follow the rules and just post an armory link and ask why their dps is stuck at 1k ..... I'd really like to see anyone claiming to find such mistakes show with real proof that EJ was wrong and that THEY found the mistake.

Overall the site/forums is similar to mmo, though with less idiocy and clutter and more tools and actual theorycraft. It's funny cause most of the stuff I find on mmo threads is linked to EJ pages or based on that information as well. Also what Zka said, he/she stated it pretty bluntly for those with less attention span .

[xnickybx]

EJ is often wrong, people need to engage their grey matter more and be less like sheep :

Please, don't act like you're some wild free thinker just because you specced imp rune tap as blood dps. In RL don't be sheep, in WOW do what's best for your raid even if you have to following the advice of people who did tests and maths. Strange concept, I know. Or you could follow the advice on here, good luck finding anything useful though since any dildo with a keyboard and no clue can act like they are the authority on their class. And anything useful you do find will more than likely give EJ as the source.

What I smell here is people who can't follow advice, like the op, and people who tried posting their useless test dummie tests on EJ and got their post sent to the dung heap.

You may like playing baseball with a tennis raquet but your baseball team hates you. But at least you aren't a sheep right... Better hide that mountain dew can though.

[Deleted]

Please, don't act like you're some wild free thinker just because you specced imp rune tap as blood dps. In RL don't be sheep, in WOW do what's best for your raid even if you have to following the advice of people who did tests and maths. Strange concept, I know. Or you could follow the advice on here, good luck finding anything useful though since any dildo with a keyboard and no clue can act like they are the authority on their class. And anything useful you do find will more than likely give EJ as the source.

What I smell here is people who can't follow advice, like the op, and people who tried posting their useless test dummie tests on EJ and got their post sent to the dung heap.

You may like playing baseball with a tennis raquet but your baseball team hates you. But at least you aren't a sheep right... Better hide that mountain dew can though.

Actually I dont have a DK.

[Wyn]

Oh noes?! Banned from the EJ website resorts to /wrists?

I for one have never gone to that site for factual information, and couldnt give a shit to what they or their superiority complex is all about. They can count and do math, good for them. Just reading that post for banning Tun was remarkable. Im not an Ensidia fanboy, but telling one of? the feral druids in one of the top 5 best guilds in the world (hence this guy must be pretty fucking good) that he sucks is seriously rediculous.

Its like some golf instructor telling tiger woods he sucks at golf because he is saying that he can only drive it 300 yards, and doesnt get why if he gained 5 more pounds of muscle and changed his grips he could hit 400 yards according to some math i put on a piece of paper

Im using golf and tiger woods as an example of a well know person that has skill in his area of expertise.

I guess its some epeen stretch for some guy who probably wont ever be as good as the person he is telling sucks. Poor guy.

[Zka]

Oh noes?! Banned from the EJ website resorts to /wrists?

I for one have never gone to that site for factual information, and couldnt give a shit to what they or their superiority complex is all about. They can count and do math, good for them. Just reading that post for banning Tun was remarkable.

A fine example of someone who does not understand what is EJ about.

[Jonisawsom]

While I agree that the tone of the ban post was pretty harsh, you have to understand how many posts per day/week these guys probably have to deal with. Probably quite a few posers and impostors as well. Every part of the post by Tun was fine, but his last statement was a bit rude. He is basically saying that the creators of the tools and the theorycrafters who use them are ridiculous and don't know what they are doing. While he could technically be right that wasn't the best way to go about saying it.

The ban post was also uncalled for imo, but had some truth to it. That post alone didn't have much of a "superior tone" as he stated, but that could be from other posts made. The ban post is true though in that they do thousands of tests with "known formulae" (some of which blizz even confirms) and such. His inability to achieve such numbers does not in itself make those, once again, "theoretical" dps numbers wrong. While Tun may do very well it doesn't mean he always does the best possible rotation as well.

Wyn your use of Tiger Woods is also technically a little off. It would be more like telling him that using a different set of clubs, gloves, shoes, balls etc would improve his game or enable him to drive the ball further. They can test the ability of ball X to be driven further than ball Z with machines and human testing. Telling Tiger to put on more muscle to drive further is like telling you to have less lag and quicker reactions and better decision making.

edit: I mean better gear for Tiger is more like better gear/buffs for your toon, while better physical conditioning is more like the individual skill of the person hitting the keys. It's a fact that dimpled golf balls fly further. It can be and has been tested. Testing BiS gear setups is done with what we hope is flawless testing (still true that it could be off here and there) similar to testing of different types of golf balls. Telling the guys at EJ they are wrong because you personally can't hit X dps is like trying to tell Tiger that you use a smooth golf ball because you drive it further, and the millions of tests done that prove you wrong must be wrong ... You have to have more proof than just "I can't do it so it must be the machine".

[xnickybx]

Actually I dont have a DK.

That's cool, that part was just a joke anyway, you crazy wow rebel you. But now I'm gonna assume you drink mountain dew. The ads got you huh? Or maybe the Warcraft labels on the cans? See where I'm goin?

[Thefirstdk]

Your itemization is for a Blood or Frost build. Loose the shit tons of ArP, swap your T9 legs for t9 helm. you need expertise bad, you are at 16....no bueno. I pull about 6.5k on a single target fight like Lord Jabermouth. I would go back to frost till you get rid of some ArP and a better 2h weapon, IMO.

[Huntardo]

EJ is a very good site for people that are new to a class. If you don't dps the same or have the same play style as the person that makes the guide then your dps will be different. I myself have read a few guides and I have played my own way and have topped dps meters with all 3 of my toons. You can't always follow somoene elses guide. Whatever worked for him may not work for you.

[Wingwraith]

[Marithas]

same was said with yogg0 unbeatable

[Jonisawsom]

EJ is a very good site for people that are new to a class. If you don't dps the same or have the same play style as the person that makes the guide then your dps will be different. I myself have read a few guides and I have played my own way and have topped dps meters with all 3 of my toons. You can't always follow somoene elses guide. Whatever worked for him may not work for you.

True and not true. Like it's been stated, you still need to understand why you are doing the things you do. Also, it's possible that some information from EJ could be wrong, or it is possibly not the "best" for your gear set, raid comp or w/e else is different about what you are doing. You need to understand that most of their testing is done with specific gear and every possible buff/flask/debuff available.

It's NOT so much about playstyle in many situations and other times it is. If you like Unholy and understand the rotation you are likely to do better with less gear than if you are confused about Blood playstyle. The competence of the person can play a major part. I'd say for your situation, maybe this is true. While your spec/playstyle may not be considered the top dps, you enjoy it and play it better than the other one. It doesn't mean the information is wrong though, it just means YOU can't accomplish it. This doesn't make you a bad player though. And for like the millionth time, just because you top meters does not make you or your spec the best. Most of the time it just means you are the best in your group or that the other people suck.

[bigjenk]

This thread obviously shows that about 90% of players are too stupid to post on EJ.
Guys, most of you don't even seem to know
1) what is EJ about
2) what is theorycrafting
3) how to prove something wrong

Even Tun of Ensidia got banned recently for not knowing 2) and 3). They don't care who you are, if you're stupid, you get banned. EJ is not a forgiving community like this one or most other wow forums where you can post retarded shit and get away with it.

The OP's post and "reasoning" is laughable. If you think they are wrong, post on the EJ DK forums. Then have fun with your well deserved ban.

The sad thing was he was right and it took them around another couple weeks to run thier number and see that they were incorrect all the while officers there had been telling him he was wrong despite the fact that he probably pulls more dps than any of them. I just dont agree with the fact that the staff their take a holier than jesus im so smart approach to others when there are better theorycrafting sites run for most classes elsewhere. They do a very bad job at theorycrafting when they speak as if everything is an absolute truth, but unfortunately the average wow player takes their word as scripture due to them not being able or willing to test stuff for themselves.

All they do is run simulators with skill priorities or rotations, unfortunately most people their are stuck to that rather than a live raid application with movement changing targets etc. they just stick to "simulator says.."

[Jamward]

EJ is not by all means the alpha and the omega of WoW, but it is a good place to get started. And speaking from experience, their unholy DK dps thread is pretty solid.