T10 Models Recap, MLG Anaheim, Blue posts

[NaughtyNordi]

This may have been said already but..

"This isn't a non-issue just because it doesn't affect Arenas. "

... really.. use double negatives more.. and make sense more.. plz?

AND REALLY... if blizz cannot relize that palidans AS A CLASS are OP then they are idiots...

and any palidan that disagrees.. I truly am sorry but you really need to understand class mechanics. I can own the hell out of a ret palidan as a feral druid, but if they have both bubble and lay on hands ready.. I'm usually hard pressed to do anything vs them.. It truly is sad when a class cannot relize when their own abilities make the most fail players able to compete. I'm sorry but re-roll if you want to actually be competitive, because right now your just a nub face-rolling your keyboard to beat anyone.

[meshugine]

That's false... at least not on all encounter (once every 20 minutes)
I'm glad you think it's funny to mock the paladins, but if they keep losing their spells one after one, they'll really end up with 3-buttons gameplay...

The LoH as it's now IS very powerfull, and it may need to be attuned (for example, let's get back to it's initial version, consuming all the mana... who at Blizzard had the "bright" idea to make it free?) ... but allowing it to be cast only on someone else is removing an additionnal option to the Protection-Paladins in PvE ...

They lost the exorcism, now the LoH ... soon the Prot-paladins will have really empty action bars...

i totally agree

[Xetrov]

Paladin
Lay of Hands
We don't think "Sure I can heal myself for 25,000+ health as a dps spec or 50,000+ health as a tank, but not very often," is balanced. Abilities can be unbalanced even if overall a character is not. This isn't a non-issue just because it doesn't affect Arenas. Also, it doesn't mean paladins are being singled out for one-vs-one duel balance (though I'm sure I'm going to be reading that for months to come).

If we gave warriors (especially Prot warriors) an ability to cause 50,000 damage in one hit with no preparation on a 90-minute cooldown, most reasonable players would call that a balance problem. The long cooldown doesn't save it. Beyond some point you can't balance a very powerful ability just by increasing the cooldown.

In general, we've been moving away from long cooldowns anyway. (Source)

my earlier post had been timed out cuz of amount of bad words i put in it time of cookie or something ran out...


anyway.

I AM GLAD I AM NO LONGER PAYING FOR THIS GAME (nor playing :P).

Changes like this makes me wonder wtf are blizz devs doing? are you guys playing with ur balls or something all day? making such changes made straight from your ass. maybe balance arena and stop doing unnecessary changes that don't affect arena play etc.... BUT WAIT

wait

WAIT

WAIT.

I got you there Ghostcrawler, and I really love you.

You guys want to nerf paladins (retribution especailly) under the ground.

At first u can be quite frustrated as it's one of my alts that I play arena on as well. But on the other hand I really like those changes.

nabz in bg no longer qq about paladins (omg he used lay on hand and i can't kill him :ccc wtf) and now can give us some offensive utility I guess...

next step is to remove bubble please. And i am totally serious (no sarcasm). it's so useless in current state and by removing it you could give us something LOL. this is the list of things u could give to ret pala:

SNARE
INTERRUPT
GAP CLOSER
MORE CC (lets say flashing shock that blinds the target for 5 sec or smth)
or anything. MS could even do in current state.

thank you and goodbye


EDIT: btw plz give us something to do with shield and 1hand weap my pala loooks so imba in it i wanna do something with shield too as ret! plz

[NaughtyNordi]

The differernce between a resto shaman doing 20k every 3min and a RET PALIDAN pretty much healing theirselves to full TWICE .. is huge..

PLEASE.. don't be a moron.. you compare a dps class that can heal themselves to full twice (not vs a priest/warrior) to a feral druid who can pop frenzied regen that can barely heal themselves for 1.5k a tick per 10rage (which most druids dont fill up on when they pop it.. since most are feral pvp dps spec).

Trust me.. if I had the time to lvl a palidan to 80.. I would pvp my ass off on it.. because that class just dominates in bgs/wintergrasp.

[FrostHate]

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/79/mmochampfail.jpg
;D

[Samin]

Druids look like the creature from the swamp
Hunters wear woden armors
Paladins seem to wear DK armors
Priests have the same look that they had when they just began in Northrend
Rogues look like level 71 trash mobs
...and Warriors wear pigs on their shoulders Oo'

Is it only my opinion or the ability of Blizzard to create nice sets is getting close to the absolute zero?

Let's all pray the shaman set will be cool


PS: regarding to the Druid/Hunt/paladin stuff... Blizz designers can only draw woden textures or what?

You only see wooden textures. WTF? Have you even looked at the hunter set? Anub'arak? >8< SPIDER PRIDE!
Paladin is NOT DK only because it has skulls. I joked about "they better not put skull und my pally or I'm going nerdrage" but in the end the put skulls on paladins (which was obivous for icecrown) and it fits! It still looks holy and fucking awesome. Still, I think a lighter color would fit better (white/silver etc) but well, it's icecrown.
Please look at the white/blue priest set. It's awesome. It almost beats T6 - Absolution (it would need a cool hood to actually beat it) The other colors look aweful (unfitting), it's impressive what colors only can change.
Rogues wear disguises oO this is something completely unimaginable.
Warriors wear vrykul armor fyi.

In the end every class wears armor somehow resembling the lich kings servant that fits their class most. Here kicks in the problem with shamans. The only shaman in the army of the lich king is
...
Ner'zhul.
Or did I miss something? Maybe it will be an ice revenant armor, would be the next nearest thing (because they are bound to elements and shamans are connected to elements)
Or we get some awesome but in the first place random looking armor. In the battle with the lich king when in frostmourne there will be a flash back and we see Ner'zhul as an orc before fleeing from draenor and getting caught/killed by Kil'jaeden...doing some stuff whatever - wearing the shaman armor.

[Taekrys]

^^ This...

Seriously, LoH is a unique paladin ability that has a long CD. It might be OP in PVE since it provides a huge instant heal for a PROT pally. But if you are anything other than prot, then it's not that OP... Shamans can get INSTANT 20k healing wave crits every 3 minutes.... Make LoH heal for 50% less and reduce it's CD to 3 or 5 minutes would be a justified nerf, but this one isn't.

I just want to appoint some things:
-Istant cast is on 2 min, after patch, same spell as Druid (Tidal Force requires 3 min, instead, right)
-That is only a Resto spell in Resto-talent-tree, not a Shaman general spell like LoH is for Pally.
-In almost-full 245 resto set i crit in raid for around 20k, right, but that's PvE. PvP gear SP-oriented gives out around 16k, and that only IF the spell crits, thing not always assured (plus, halved by MS os similar, it reaches at most 8k in PvP).
-LoH heals for your max health (PvP gear can bring you around 28-30k self-buffed) and crit for impossible amounts, bypassing any heal-halving tecnique.

That standing, you can still state rightly that having a 2 minutes CD arena-usable is quite better than a 20 minutes CD NOT arena-usable.
Fact is, my "underpowered" friend that this is ONE resource from a single talent-tree. You are pinpointing Nature's Swiftness like it's a contest between NS and LoH, but that is correct only assuming you don't have any other kind of resources.
You can make yourself invulnerable from any and all kind of spell dispelling the undispellable with the double chance to kill (halved damage, WOW!) and refill yourself every 5 minutes for 12 secs. Plus, along with Hand of protection, you can do that twice in 5 minutes (ok, that's not the same spell, but against melee works the same way, aside from impossibility to attack). Plus, during those dramatic 5 minutes you can also boost your damage and healing for 30%, like not even Hysteria is able to do.
Now, tell me: do Shamans have anything similar in the general spellbook? Not gained from spec, I mean.
I won't make yourself think too much about that... Answer is: NO.

The most funny thing here isn't like Pally are so uber-whiners that they whine for a nerf even when no nerf is yet officialized (like saying "We don't need nerf, we are balanced exactly the way we are now, so we'll whine on any nerf will come").
The most funny thing is that if Ghostcrawler states a true thing saying they will lower CD after nerfing LoH, you will almost surely be able to use it in arena along with your various stange lighty spells.
And that means a BUFF in arena gameplay, since you will receive a new resource you actually don't have.

Well played, really.

[Pally4ever]

I think that female paldin should looks like this
http://dvdice.deviantart.com/art/Pal...lock-142003997

[CCloak]

lol @ palis trying to defend LoH. World/group(bgs) pvp matters in this game and those crazy long CDs have no place in it anymore. The ability is simply too powerful for the current state of pvp. You literally have to kill a Pali 3 times.

I found LOH and Divine Shield mainly a problem because it prevents the developers to make the rets more offensive(i.e. lacking utilities like interrupts, real gap closers). Its not possible to pack both defensive and offensive abilities into one package without overpowering it. You can imagine if a warlock, with fear/seduce/spell lock, currently carrying pre-ret burst level ranged damage, will also carry a healthstone healing them to full health, and an invincibility shield from their voidwalker. Death Knights are also nerfed because of the same reason.

Someone earlier pointed out, why suddenly the mana-free cost for LOH? Would it be ok if only holy (or prot, consider LOH as ohsht button for tanks too) gets the mana free portion, while the rets only gain full health but lose all their mana just like the old days.

Discuss?

[Raiss]

I must agree that Lay on Hands is overpowered for BGs. And there are lots of overpowered skills on BG,s such as thunderstorm, mindcontrol, teleport to unreachable places, army of the dead, DK aoe iceblock etc. And I really don't see Blizzard doing anything to nerf them either. Nor calling the other classes "God of LM/EOTS death due fall dmg" or "Boss with lots of adds", for dks and enhance shamans.
But please GC, please stop trolling. You said paladin has 3 phases, let check it.

Ret Paladin "phase one": DPS, can instant heal using procs. Shamans, druids and priests can do the same thing. Can shield wall, but he won't be able to go to "phase 2" if he does that. If you can force phase 2 in less than 30 seconds, he won't be able to use his ofensive cooldown either.

Ret Paladin "phase two": Bubble and heal. If there is a priest or a warrior, it will be dispelled asap. His Holy Light cast is huge, so you can heal yourself while he does that. He will be OOM as soon this phase is over, so he will be hardly able to dps nor heal after this.

Ret Paladin "phase three": Heals himself back to full health. Once each 15 minutes. Cannot be used while stunned/interrupted/silenced. Does not work at arenas.

Please notice that, once you used a cooldown, there is no way back. Now lets see a warrior:

Phase one: DPS, -50% of target's spellpower.
Phase two: Defensive, spell reflect, disarm
Phase one: DPS, unstopable dps with bladestorm, -50% sp
Phase two: moar spell reflect, shield block, interrupts
Phase one: DPS, -50% sp.
Phase three: Shield Wall, reflect, shield block.
Phase one again: DPS with frenzy regen on, self healing, -50% sp
Phase two: Spell reflect, more stuns, more interrupt, disarm.

And he can go like that for ever. It's amazing how can he say that warriors can't use protection skills while doing DPS. Any good warrior should be able to preform his defensive abilitys with low cooldown, such as reflect, revenge and shield block. And wait, they cannot be dispelled. Every paladin ability can be dispelled.

[Deleted]

I personally don't like the change. Unless they a talent so lay on hands can be used on yourself in the prot tree. So many times i've seen protection pallys save their lives with that ability. Kinda a shame to lose it as they don't really have that many cooldowns

Also WHERES MY t10 :'(

[Rathxjr]

i cant WAIT for warrior sets!

PS you put the human DK in the wrong row again XD

[nwo]

-LoH heals for your max health (PvP gear can bring you around 28-30k self-buffed) and crit for impossible amounts, bypassing any heal-halving tecnique.

wrong, LoH does not bypass any MS effects... Also, I stopped reading here because you have obviously never played a paladin.

edit:

-In almost-full 245 resto set i crit in raid for around 20k, right, but that's PvE. PvP gear SP-oriented gives out around 16k, and that only IF the spell crits, thing not always assured (plus, halved by MS os similar, it reaches at most 8k in PvP).

If you ever played a resto shaman, then you would have the knowledge and skill to macro NS/Tidal force so that you have about a 90% chance to crit with healing wave.

[Nightsyte]

Honestly, if you are forced to use LoH on yourself as a tank in a PvE or raiding environment - then it's time to recruit some new healers, because the ones you have right now are failing their arses off.

[Grisou]

Trust me.. if I had the time to lvl a palidan to 80.. I would pvp my ass off on it.. because that class just dominates in bgs/wintergrasp.

Please do this, create a paladin and go play... maybe you'll finally understand to what extend the whiners' demands are dumb.

On another side, thanx to stop calling all the people that doesn't agree with you with names like morons or idiots... you don't own the ultimate knowledge, you're no god, you don't decide who is idiot or not.

Now, if you have real elements to discuss, everybody'll be pleased to discuss solutions on the subject... but if you keep saying "you're OP, and if you don't agree, you're stupid", I don't think the discussion will bring anything intrestning.




About the fact I compaired the LoH to NS (for example), the point is that each HEALING class in PvP will have a "full-health-instant-spell" with various CD durations, except for the paladin who will have to cast each of his spells... (who is still able to perform a correct cast in PvP now?)

On the point that the Prot-adins will lose a panic button, it's a pain for PvE players, removing one option again, getting again the paldin closer to the 3-key-class.

For Ret-paladins, getting a 20k heal once every 20 fights in BG is no big deal for anyone...



Well, anyway, there'll always be people who gets happy with the others's pain... the difference here is that in addition they come on the forum and mock you again and again... :-/

[kmp1331]

As a ret/holy pally, I like the 'Holy gets the free LoH, prot/ret still costs 100% mana' idea that someone posted earlier. I would have been fine with everyone still having the 100% mana version like the old days, not sure why they changed that.

[Nightsyte]

I must agree that Lay on Hands is overpowered for BGs. And there are lots of overpowered skills on BG,s such as thunderstorm, mindcontrol, teleport to unreachable places etc. But please GC, please stop trolling. You said paladin has 3 phases, let check it.

Ret Paladin "phase one": DPS, can instant heal using procs. Shamans, druids and priests can do the same thing. Can shield wall, but he won't be able to go to "phase 2" if he does that. If you can force phase 2 in less than 30 seconds, he won't be able to use his ofensive cooldown either.

Ret Paladin "phase two": Bubble and heal. If there is a priest or a warrior, it will be dispelled asap. His Holy Light cast is huge, so you can heal yourself while he does that. He will be OOM as soon this phase is over, so he will be hardly able to dps nor heal after this.

Ret Paladin "phase three": Heals himself back to full health. Once each 15 minutes. Cannot be used while stunned/interrupted/silenced. Does not work at arenas.

Please notice that, once you used a cooldown, there is no way back. Now lets see a warrior:

Phase one: DPS, -50% of target's spellpower.
Phase two: Defensive, spell reflect, disarm
Phase one: DPS, unstopable dps with bladestorm, -50% sp
Phase two: moar spell reflect, shield block, interrupts
Phase one: DPS, -50% sp.
Phase three: Shield Wall, reflect, shield block.
Phase one again: DPS with frenzy regen on, self healing, -50% sp
Phase two: Spell reflect, more stuns, more interrupt, disarm.

And he can go like that for ever. It's amazing how can he say that warriors can't use protection skills while doing DPS. Any good warrior should be able to preform his defensive abilitys with low cooldown, such as reflect, revenge and shield block. And wait, they cannot be dispelled. Every paladin ability can be dispelled.

The stupidity of this post is unbelievable.

1. Any warrior specced into Bladestorm is not going to be specced into the stuns and interrupts you're mentioning in Prot.
2. It's not possible to spec into Bladestorm AND Furious Attacks
3. Paladin Seals cannot be dispelled - automatic fail.

[Samin]

What was the use of the mana draining LoH? I mean you heal yourself to full and at the time you have mana to continue what ever your were doing you already have lost all the health again. Seems stupid and very useless to me.

[Raiss]

The stupidity of this post is unbelievable.

1. Any warrior specced into Bladestorm is not going to be specced into the stuns and interrupts you're mentioning in Prot.
2. Paladin Seals cannot be dispelled - automatic fail.

1. Charge Stun. Intercept Stun. Shield Bash. Pummel. Shield Slam dispell. Retaliation to banish all melee. AOE fear can be used as a interrupt. All base line. If you can't change your stance and gear with macros, it's not my fault.
2. Nor can any weapon enchant. This is nothing special. Now let my shield wall undispelleable like yours is and I might stop complaning. And I'm not talking about Bubble. I'm talking about Divine Protection and Hand of Salvation, that are useless if there is a priest/shaman on the other team.

[Nightsyte]

What was the use of the mana draining LoH? I mean you heal yourself to full and at the time you have mana to continue what ever your were doing you already have lost all the health again. Seems stupid and very useless to me.

It makes LoH more of an "I just lost and now I want to run away" ability - which is what it should be in BGs.

Just because it takes 20 fights just for your amazing CD to come back up, doesn't mean that it still doesn't absolutely BLOW for the one guy who catches you with it up.