T10 Models Recap, MLG Anaheim, Blue posts

[zelbobo1]

Lay of Hands

If we gave warriors (especially Prot warriors) an ability to cause 50,000 damage in one hit with no preparation on a 90-minute cooldown, most reasonable players would call that a balance problem. The long cooldown doesn't save it. Beyond some point you can't balance a very powerful ability just by increasing the cooldown.


Yes. Giving a lay on hands type ability to warriors would be over powered because they also have snares, interrupts, fear, gap closers and mortal strike.

[Buffwhite]

There are a lot of alts being leveled right now. I currently have 4. Coming across a paladin in world pvp is almost as bad as coming across a rogue in world pvp when you don't have your pvp trinket equipped. You're basically done if he's similarly geared/skilled. The pally is gonna have his LoH up probably, which means you are going to have to kill him 3 times. If he wants to steal your mining node, he doesn't like shams or he just feels like a guaranteed kill, he can get it by blowing his cd's. Unless you are a pally or super extremely twinked, you aren't going to be able to kill him 3 times before he kills you once.

I don't mess with pallies anywhere if I can help it because I dread their cd's and i always thought it was shit that they had so many ways to survive. HoJ and heal, Repentance and heal, Bubble and heal, Lay on Hands, insta flash heals, the holy whirlwind heal they have (i think they have a small hot as well). Ugh. I'm just glad some of their survivability is out the window now. Most of their damage is already unmitigated by armor, being Holy damage (also the only current magic school with absolutely no resistances for it). Now a pally will actually have to think twice about attacking another class in BG's and World PvP instead of running headlong into 5 ppl and saying "i'll be alright". (again, this also being a big part of the problem with pallies while leveling where the bubble is unbreakable so they get the benefit of the full duration along with LoH, not just at the level cap)

I know PvP is not balanced around 1v1. But 1v1 is a lot of where PvP happens. While leveling, while going up the ramp in WSG, in 2v2 arenas when both healers/dps die simultaneously, while defending a node against a lone attacker in AB because Horde wants to zerg stabs, while mining, while questing, blah blah blah. It matters, so you can't just say "I have this OP ability, but since I can't use it in arena, continue to let me have it, because 1v1 is meh."

P.S.

Mostly talkin about rets here, and from what I gather, GC was too.

[phai]

/catches shaman and paladin tears and creates a new super elixir!

Muhahahahaha!

[lllBlackSunlll]

The female paladin t10 looks pretty masculent if I do say so myself

[Grisou]

Ironic that you call the people that see the point 'no-brainers' when you yourself dont see it.

The point was comparing an Op ability with 'another imaginary one', in this case that 50k hit from a warrior.

Comparing something with an imaginary possibility is ok if it compares similar things... here, he compares things that have no relation to each other... so this IS manipulation...

The only ones who believe this to be a proof the nerf is needed are the ones who want to use it to claim more and more nerfs... or those who don't understnd what they are talking about...

About your irony, I see GC's point, but I think it doesn't make sense when you think about it more than just reading what "god" says...

[Grisou]

Mostly talkin about rets here, and from what I gather, GC was too.

THAT is an important problem too...
Depending on who's talking, the discussion changes his way by switching from Prot to ret-paladins attacks...

Being clear once and for all; nerfing the LoH will nerf ALL specializations... so if the point is to reduce Ret survivability, ok, but then, how to explain the Prot-ones lose their spell too?

If GC wants to nerf a specific specialization, he shoulr work on specific skills, and not on general ones that will affect all the other specs, perturbing once again the balance...

[zkillon]

thanks blizzard u just make it eaiser to quit the game ,nerf retri palas ,palas and warriors more so i can quit for the last time

[Zanalicious]

I really hope that the paladin helm isn't bugged ;D the QQ would be massive!

[Nicekisch]

Honestly, what were they thinking while designing those sets?

They look shittier than anything ever before... no wonder that my first impression was "omfg dull brown/ocher colors AGAIN" ...

[peeweesweden]

Following the other classes models for T10, I predict the Shaman helmet to be a rock, tied on top of your head with a red ribbon, with a frog on top of it. The shoulderpads will be two gnomes in ballerina outfits, and to top it off, the chestpiece will be a red unitard.

Yes. That will be fun.

[Taekrys]

But, before putting everything on the line altogether, shouldn't we all and moreover Blizzard itself worry on the biggest trouble here?
I mean, it's wrong now as now that any tank have a use in PvP envinronment... If that was meant to happen prot talent tree would contain something that justify that, shouldn't it?

I mean, take a Warrior. In his spec tank you can easily take him down. Slowly but, hey, any healer can achieve that. No sudden burst damage, a good chain-stun pretty pointless in defensive stance, spell reflect and a lot of useful skills... But in the long play most classes can nuke the crap out of him.
Melee classes (aside from Palaretri, I think) don't stand a chance on the other hand. So rogues, DKs (not sure here), other warriors, Shaman Enhancement are lost in the urge of surrender themself and just run away.

That alone, I think, is wrong. Tanks shouldn't exist in a PvP content, and this seriously need to be nerfed 'cause it's stupid to create hopeless situation in PvP.
Almost like it's stupid to make stall situation exist when two healers or DOTter and healers are left alone in an arena match (speaking of which, I fought alone against a Spriest 26 minutes the other day).

Problem here is bigger than that extent, with pally, because putting aside retri power for a moment they can create a spec which make them "tank" while healing and bursting, which with a Warrior or any other class never happens.
Protection talent-tree shouldn't never meant to exist in such a deep build inside arena... Not a such a high rating, at least.
I mean... I met Protection-Tank in 2v2 teams on my way, and they were all losers (which in rare cases are strong against strange setups, I suppose).
Pally? They give serious troubles.

So, here is the point: fine with retri burn or holy invulnerability, but please someone make the prot tree useless in arena or PvP aside from Flag Carriers. That is ridiculous.
Fix that, and THEN start to work on holy/retri troubles.
First big troubles, then "small" troubles.

[Srg56]

Comparing something with an imaginary possibility is ok if it compares similar things... here, he compares things that have no relation to each other... so this IS manipulation...

The only ones who believe this to be a proof the nerf is needed are the ones who want to use it to claim more and more nerfs... or those who don't understnd what they are talking about...

About your irony, I see GC's point, but I think it doesn't make sense when you think about it more than just reading what "god" says...

He gave an example of probably the first thing that came to his mind when he wrote that post.

Should have he mentioned giving rogues a 50k heal vs a paladins 50k heal but on a 90 minute cooldown( crazy i know ) you and others like you would have still found a way to go around it. But that's not the point you see, as other posters here have pointed out, a paladin has 3 lives while you only have 1, in world pvp, and BGs.

You probably have no idea how its like to have to outplay a paladin 3 times just because he can press 2 more keys and reset the fight over and over.

As for PvE side of things, ive asked the officers in my guild multiple times to reroll to my warrior which is very good geared only to be told that "1 warrior tank is enough per guild, paladins are better, sorry".

By defending this ability you only point out how oblivious you are to the facts presented before you.

[Brhino]

I am a very average Pvper on my ret paladin. LOL @ Mr. "How do I kite a paladin" hunter. When I find a stupid hunter, I beat him like a rug. When I find a GOOD hunter, I'm lucky if I get one or two hits off. If he can never beat a paladin, he's just a crappy player, end of story.

The LoH thing is just confusing. They took an ability, buffed it twice, and then said it's overpowered. What were you thinking when you buffed it then? I use it mostly for "oh shit" moments in raids or PvE soloing. Generally, when I have to use it in pvp, I'm getting beat so badly that it's not even going to matter. Like this rogue that jumped me the other day. Even with my "three lives", I got a total of ONE attack off, which he dodged. That was a good rogue kicking the crap out of an average paladin. You can bet he's not on these forums complaining about "three phases" and "omg I get burned down during the duration of Hammer of Justice". He just learned how to play his class and beat other classes.

[quiz]

Love rogue, druid and warrior T10 gear

[HotsPal]

I am a very average Pvper on my ret paladin. LOL @ Mr. "How do I kite a paladin" hunter. When I find a stupid hunter, I beat him like a rug. When I find a GOOD hunter, I'm lucky if I get one or two hits off. If he can never beat a paladin, he's just a crappy player, end of story.

The LoH thing is just confusing. They took an ability, buffed it twice, and then said it's overpowered. What were you thinking when you buffed it then? I use it mostly for "oh shit" moments in raids or PvE soloing. Generally, when I have to use it in pvp, I'm getting beat so badly that it's not even going to matter. Like this rogue that jumped me the other day. Even with my "three lives", I got a total of ONE attack off, which he dodged. That was a good rogue kicking the crap out of an average paladin. You can bet he's not on these forums complaining about "three phases" and "omg I get burned down during the duration of Hammer of Justice". He just learned how to play his class and beat other classes.

im failing to see where the problem with loh is in BGs and PvE? its not like people are taking 15 pallys to a raid to use lohs.
its on par with brez if you ask me...but noone ever wants to talk about druids being op...

i promise you, they will come after BoP next...then bubble.

[Aonix]

LoH nerf is justified.
inb4 paladins QQing about how they should be able to solo heroics.

QQ PALADINS QQ NERF QQ OP..

grow up.

[booyakasha]

that is the shaman set, we will look like big question marks running around.

theyre taking their time making it so epic so we feel better about being shaman.

[Zanalicious]

This has been said so many times before, but the warriors set looks fucking amazing!

[HotsPal]

and may i just add...comparing LOH to a 50k instant hit by a prot warrior is kinda ridiculous...and a silly comment at that...

id like someone to elaborate on how that comparison even makes sense-beside them saying it would also have a cooldown....

[Thanntos]

FFS Boub, I think your holding out on Shaman T10 to fuck with us.... >