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  1. #221

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Blood Tap can be used whenever- If all your runes are on CD and you use Blood Tap, you instantly get a Death Rune available for use.
    Imp SS also requires 3 talent points.

    I do acknowledge the fact that the tree is horribly bloated, but it can be easily taken with this build.
    That's a spec I would never use, it's horrible.

    You guys are obvious deluded.
    I'm not even sure why I bother responding, it's probably because I'm listening to a great album, and don't feel like turning it off to do something else.

  2. #222
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg
    That's a spec I would never use, it's horrible.

    You guys are obvious deluded.
    I'm not even sure why I bother responding, it's probably because I'm listening to a great album, and don't feel like turning it off to do something else.
    Then don't. Your use of Ad Hominem gets you nowhere in trying to prove any point.

  3. #223

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Considering this could really only cause consistent trouble with paladin tanks casting it on themselves, I've already made my peace with the change since I rarely tank.

    The only thing I've been wondering is, let's assume a paladin tank uses LoH on himself during a fight, gaining Forbearance. Before Forbearance wears off would it still be possible for another paladin to cast it on that same tank, since it wouldn't cause the debuff?

    Logically you'd think there wouldn't be any cross-debuff interference to prevent it, but I'm just thinking aloud. Any thoughts?

  4. #224
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjarobot44
    Considering this could really only cause consistent trouble with paladin tanks casting it on themselves, I've already made my peace with the change since I rarely tank.

    The only thing I've been wondering is, let's assume a paladin tank uses LoH on himself during a fight, gaining Forbearance. Before Forbearance wears off would it still be possible for another paladin to cast it on that same tank, since it wouldn't cause the debuff?

    Logically you'd think there wouldn't be any cross-debuff interference to prevent it, but I'm just thinking aloud. Any thoughts?
    Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

    Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
    Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
    Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)

  5. #225

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

    Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
    Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
    Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)
    I'm pretty sure there will be some bug that will make it work different and they won't fix it till 4.1
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  6. #226

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

    Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
    Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
    Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)
    Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).

  7. #227
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by elephanto
    Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).
    Forbearance is ONLY gained when you used:
    Divine Protection
    Divine Shield
    Hand of Protection
    Lay on Hands (when used on yourself only)

  8. #228

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by elephanto
    Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).
    I'll add it for you:
    Prot Paladin uses LoH on himself >> Forbearence given
    Prot Paladin wants to use bubble >> Prot Paladin dies, because of Forbearance.

    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #229

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  10. #230

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.
    Thats essentially my question .
    If you can, that those changes do nothing for the cause they were implemented to help except maybe for unnecessarily messing with some rotations (paladin cant either first DS then LoH, or LoH first then DS - he has to do it the first way).

  11. #231

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    I'd imagine they would add a cannot be cast if you have forbearance, or cannot be cast on yourself while you have forbearance. Are these changes actually on the PTR yet? I never bothered to download it and this seems too trivial to bother downloading it for.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  12. #232
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.
    In theory, you can use it on others when you have forbearance, just not yourself.

  13. #233

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    IMO LOH isn't really OP... Most of the time you die you got hit for dead or someone wasnt doing something right.. Very rarely do you have the opportunity to hit LOH when it really matters.

    It's kinda like saying having a kevlar frying pan stuffed down your pants is an unfair advantage against gunfire.. You'll never have it out by the time you realize you just had an accident.

    Now.. ardent defender... I'm waiting for the nerf bat on that one any day now...


    Oh and as for it messing up the tank..


    IMO Healer get Addon: Power Auras : If target has forebearance then apply power aura... Done no suprises.
    I went to the woods bc I wished to live deliberately to front only the essential facts of life & see if I could not learn what it had to teach & not when I came to die discover that I had not lived.

  14. #234

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Nah no problems so far ;D

  15. #235

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daginni
    That "Oh shit button" made killing a pally impossible.
    I don't understand this stuff. It has a TWENTY MIN CD if your ret or prot. I mean seriously guys, every other healing capable class has some form of this massive heal, except they get it as a normal heal without a 20 min CD. Cult hypocrisy at its finest again, the Paladin Rule is in effect.

    The quote from the blue when this first came down was "we don't view a full heal, even one with a 20 min CD, as a good game mechanic." O rly? where you been for 5 years? Paladin rule, more hypocrisy regarding the paladin class.

    Thankfully blizz had the foresight to make it so you can use it on other people with casuing forbearence.


  16. #236
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skiball
    Thankfully blizz had the foresight to make it so you can use it on other people with casuing forbearence.
    They didn't we had to tell them to.

  17. #237

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Then don't. Your use of Ad Hominem gets you nowhere in trying to prove any point.
    I think you should stop fagging shit up like this.

  18. #238
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    From a PVE standpoint, ER > LoH.

    lets assume you have the minor LoH glyph, reducing cd to 15 min. 100% hp every 15 min right?

    ER, 3 min cd. 30% hp.
    3x5=15
    30%x5=150% HP

    ER restores 150% of the warriors HP every 15 min potentially whereas LoH is 100%. If your not glyphed for LoH (it's a minor glyph so i dont see why you wouldnt...) its 180% of the warriors hp over the timeframe



    PvP standpoint...

    LoH - omfg i killed this ret 2 1/2 times before he was able to kill me their OP!!!! nerf bubble or loh nao!

    ER - This warrior popped shield wall, shield block and/or spell reflect, then ER... meh it's just 30% hp we'll get him.
    Look up, see the buzzards circling?

  19. #239
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg
    I think you should stop fagging shit up like this.
    Necro insult? ??? ??? ???

  20. #240

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    The LoH nerf doesn't matter much to me.

    I mostly tank in 25 mans so theres very few times where I can use it fast enough.

    Its kind of annoying in the 5-mans not being able to use it now, cause its actually possible to use it effectively there, but that just means I need a better healer anyway :P

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