Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

[Ninjarobot44]

Considering this could really only cause consistent trouble with paladin tanks casting it on themselves, I've already made my peace with the change since I rarely tank.

The only thing I've been wondering is, let's assume a paladin tank uses LoH on himself during a fight, gaining Forbearance. Before Forbearance wears off would it still be possible for another paladin to cast it on that same tank, since it wouldn't cause the debuff?

Logically you'd think there wouldn't be any cross-debuff interference to prevent it, but I'm just thinking aloud. Any thoughts?

[Ronark]

Considering this could really only cause consistent trouble with paladin tanks casting it on themselves, I've already made my peace with the change since I rarely tank.

The only thing I've been wondering is, let's assume a paladin tank uses LoH on himself during a fight, gaining Forbearance. Before Forbearance wears off would it still be possible for another paladin to cast it on that same tank, since it wouldn't cause the debuff?

Logically you'd think there wouldn't be any cross-debuff interference to prevent it, but I'm just thinking aloud. Any thoughts?

Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)

[Nillo]

Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)

I'm pretty sure there will be some bug that will make it work different and they won't fix it till 4.1

[elephanto]

Assume you have a Ret, Prot, and Holy Paladin.

Holy Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> No Forbearance given
Prot Paladin casts LoH on Himself>>>> Paladin gains Forbearance
Ret Paladin casts LoH on Prot Paladin >>>> LoH goes through (since it wouldn't cause Forbearance anyhow in this case)

Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).

[Ronark]

Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).

Forbearance is ONLY gained when you used:
Divine Protection
Divine Shield
Hand of Protection
Lay on Hands (when used on yourself only)

[Nillo]

Hmm.. wouldnt that sort of ruin the purpose of the "changes"? If it works as you described, then every paladin could first bubble [gain forbearance], heal to full and then still use LoH on himself (not the other way around tho).

I'll add it for you:
Prot Paladin uses LoH on himself >> Forbearence given
Prot Paladin wants to use bubble >> Prot Paladin dies, because of Forbearance.

[Melonberry]

Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.

[elephanto]

Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.

Thats essentially my question .
If you can, that those changes do nothing for the cause they were implemented to help except maybe for unnecessarily messing with some rotations (paladin cant either first DS then LoH, or LoH first then DS - he has to do it the first way).

[Melonberry]

I'd imagine they would add a cannot be cast if you have forbearance, or cannot be cast on yourself while you have forbearance. Are these changes actually on the PTR yet? I never bothered to download it and this seems too trivial to bother downloading it for.

[Ronark]

Can you self LoH if you have forbearance? I'd assume no, but I'd expect bugs where other LoHs are blocked by forbearances too.

In theory, you can use it on others when you have forbearance, just not yourself.

[ploinks]

IMO LOH isn't really OP... Most of the time you die you got hit for dead or someone wasnt doing something right.. Very rarely do you have the opportunity to hit LOH when it really matters.

It's kinda like saying having a kevlar frying pan stuffed down your pants is an unfair advantage against gunfire.. You'll never have it out by the time you realize you just had an accident.

Now.. ardent defender... I'm waiting for the nerf bat on that one any day now...


Oh and as for it messing up the tank..


IMO Healer get Addon: Power Auras : If target has forebearance then apply power aura... Done no suprises.

[DaLeetPawner]

Nah no problems so far ;D

[Skiball]

That "Oh shit button" made killing a pally impossible.

I don't understand this stuff. It has a TWENTY MIN CD if your ret or prot. I mean seriously guys, every other healing capable class has some form of this massive heal, except they get it as a normal heal without a 20 min CD. Cult hypocrisy at its finest again, the Paladin Rule is in effect.

The quote from the blue when this first came down was "we don't view a full heal, even one with a 20 min CD, as a good game mechanic." O rly? where you been for 5 years? Paladin rule, more hypocrisy regarding the paladin class.

Thankfully blizz had the foresight to make it so you can use it on other people with casuing forbearence.

[Ronark]

Thankfully blizz had the foresight to make it so you can use it on other people with casuing forbearence.

They didn't we had to tell them to.

[Raptorg]

Then don't. Your use of Ad Hominem gets you nowhere in trying to prove any point.

I think you should stop fagging shit up like this.

[Styria]

From a PVE standpoint, ER > LoH.

lets assume you have the minor LoH glyph, reducing cd to 15 min. 100% hp every 15 min right?

ER, 3 min cd. 30% hp.
3x5=15
30%x5=150% HP

ER restores 150% of the warriors HP every 15 min potentially whereas LoH is 100%. If your not glyphed for LoH (it's a minor glyph so i dont see why you wouldnt...) its 180% of the warriors hp over the timeframe



PvP standpoint...

LoH - omfg i killed this ret 2 1/2 times before he was able to kill me their OP!!!! nerf bubble or loh nao!

ER - This warrior popped shield wall, shield block and/or spell reflect, then ER... meh it's just 30% hp we'll get him.

[Ronark]

I think you should stop fagging shit up like this.

Necro insult? ??? ??? ???

[Rango]

The LoH nerf doesn't matter much to me.

I mostly tank in 25 mans so theres very few times where I can use it fast enough.

Its kind of annoying in the 5-mans not being able to use it now, cause its actually possible to use it effectively there, but that just means I need a better healer anyway :P