More PTR Experiences with Shadow - PVP stuff

[Direshadow]

So I just got done doing a bunch of reading on various forums and I was quite surprised that people are actually complaining about Shadow Priests being slightly overpowered in PVP now. At first I really couldn't wrap my head around this concept. I always thought that for us to be competitive, and I mean SERIOUSLY competitive, drastic changes would need to come into play.

I mean sure, there are some Shadow Priests who do Arena seriously at the moment, but I guarantee you that they're probably dead last on the "Threat" list.

Because myself, and other Shadow Priests have suffered being an easy target in the wild and on the battlefield for so long, I couldn't resist hopping back into the PTR and trying a few fights.

First off, I just asked trade chat if what I was hearing was actually true, and the response I got was quite shocking. Not only did the trade chat almost flood with agreement, I got several whispers from classes like Rogues and Shamans telling me that Shadow Priests are much more threatening now, even to the point where one rogue told me, "Shadow Priests scare me now. Their damage is insane".

Another said something along the lines of, "They're hard to kill. Self healing is insane"

Personally, after a few duels and skirmishes, I'd have to agree that the changes really do help shadow priests in PVP a lot. I found myself multi-dotting more then usual, and although it was mana costly, the fact that it was almost like having druid hots on you all the time was really helpful.

I can't say much about the haste factor, however, since I've poured all of my effort into getting crit gear. Thinking about it though, having dots ticking faster would only mean that we get more healing and the damage is going through faster and makes me wonder if I should start re-itemizing on live NOW, rather then later.

What are other people's experiences with the PVP side of things?

Also, why is it that on the PTR, our INT seems to be down. On live I have about 15K mana in my pvp gear, but on the PTR I only have 13k.

[Deleted]

Haste on dots I don't see as a big change. The pvp set still only offers crit or spirit. Sure you can get haste with offpieces but that would probably push your crit under 10-12%, meaning it's wasted against a high resilience target. Mooncloth set + haste offset pieces could work if you like the playstyle.

The VE change is a good change and it will help shortening the setup time. The damage is good, it just takes too long to get it rolling. If my PH is on cd most classes can burst me down to 50-60% by the time I've got my dots set up, and if they can reset with cloak, ib or bubble, it was all for nothing.

The Imp DP change is interesting. The initial damage is close to SW:P from what I've seen. Again, it helps to get the preasure on earlier. Mana cost is high but it might even be worth spamming in some situations.

I was already happy with the damage in pvp, it's the control we lack compaired to other casters like mages and warlocks.

[Worshaka]

Haste on dots I don't see as a big change. The pvp set still only offers crit or spirit. Sure you can get haste with offpieces but that would probably push your crit under 10-12%, meaning it's wasted against a high resilience target. Mooncloth set + haste offset pieces could work if you like the playstyle.

The VE change is a good change and it will help shortening the setup time. The damage is good, it just takes too long to get it rolling. If my PH is on cd most classes can burst me down to 50-60% by the time I've got my dots set up, and if they can reset with cloak, ib or bubble, it was all for nothing.

The Imp DP change is interesting. The initial damage is close to SW:P from what I've seen. Again, it helps to get the preasure on earlier. Mana cost is high but it might even be worth spamming in some situations.

I was already happy with the damage in pvp, it's the control we lack compaired to other casters like mages and warlocks.

Crit is already wasted on high resilence targets, not to mention that resilience double dips on crit by reducing the chance for it to occur and then reducing the damage when it does occur.

Haste on the other hand isn't affected by resilence one iota. You can get more haste than you can crit for the same ilvl points and it has the added affect of making your healing spells quicker to cast which is a nice pvp benefit.

[Direshadow]

Crit is already wasted on high resilence targets, not to mention that resilience double dips on crit by reducing the chance for it to occur and then reducing the damage when it does occur.

Haste on the other hand isn't affected by resilence one iota. You can get more haste than you can crit for the same ilvl points and it has the added affect of making your healing spells quicker to cast which is a nice pvp benefit.

That's kind of what I thought, but it's annoying that NONE of our pvp gear has any haste on it. The only reason I have haste in pvp mode is because of my pve items, offhands and wand.

Seems that if it works out, it'll be a balance between raw damage and haste when in pvp mode.

[I heal in Shadowform]

The Imp DP change is interesting. The initial damage is close to SW:P from what I've seen. Again, it helps to get the preasure on earlier. Mana cost is high but it might even be worth spamming in some situations.

DP will be the new Moonfire as it does over 2k damage the moment you cast it on targets with 800+ resilience. I dueled many people in the PTR sewers and i had absolutely no trouble defeating melee (except for rogues) by simply running around spamming DP and keeping PW:S on myself and ranged (except for affliction locks) against which i just fully Dot'ed them and then LoS'd around the crates

I know the game isnt balanced around 1v1 but most of the times it gives a clear picture about which class is OP and which is not... expect DP nerf soon 8) 8) 8)

The VE change is a good change and it will help shortening the setup time...

Ironically enough, the new VE will increase the numbers of buffs we have to cast on ourselves after a spirit rez in battlegrounds to a whopping 7 (if fear ward is off CD).

[Abandon]

I usually don't cast Fear Ward unless I see someone who can fear, otherwise you lose it a lot to dispels and purge spam.

[Imyourpally]

OMG I really hope this stays this way! I really miss the fear people use to have of shadow priest. I leveled one in TBC for this reason alone, but was very sad in WOTLK because we just flat sucked in PvP :'(

[KresnikHellfire]

That's kind of what I thought, but it's annoying that NONE of our pvp gear has any haste on it. The only reason I have haste in pvp mode is because of my pve items, offhands and wand.

Seems that if it works out, it'll be a balance between raw damage and haste when in pvp mode.

There are now relentless pieces with haste on in all slots (if I remember correctly), plus you can buy wintergrasp legs with haste on.

It's not the best, but it's a start. Mages have been asking for a haste set since Season 5 (probably earlier in fact) and they haven't been given one yet, so don't get your hopes up

[Deleted]

Crit is already wasted on high resilence targets, not to mention that resilience double dips on crit by reducing the chance for it to occur and then reducing the damage when it does occur.

Haste on the other hand isn't affected by resilence one iota. You can get more haste than you can crit for the same ilvl points and it has the added affect of making your healing spells quicker to cast which is a nice pvp benefit.

Intellect alone will give you about 7% base crit. The average pvp target has about 8-9% reduced crit chance, so in reality not a large amount of the crit in gear or talents is wasted. You start at about -2%...-1% crit at 0 crit rating. It's possible to get 23-24% base crit with full crit set, that's 28% on MB, MF and 30% on dots. With crit talents that's high enough to cause some nice burst now and then. It's possible to get about 12-13% haste by sacrificing about 10% crit, but alot of burst will be lost. Crit talents will not be worth it any more as crits don't occur often enough to cause real preasure. Burst is what kills in pvp 90% of the time, constant predictable damage is easy to heal.

I guess it comes to personal preference and play style, I prefer the burst.

Anyway, hasted dots is good news for anyone playing with a shaman. Heroism now means 30% faster dots also.

[Baabinator]

DP will be the new Moonfire as it does over 2k damage the moment you cast it on targets with 800+ resilience. I dueled many people in the PTR sewers and i had absolutely no trouble defeating melee (except for rogues) by simply running around spamming DP and keeping PW:S on myself and ranged (except for affliction locks) against which i just fully Dot'ed them and then LoS'd around the crates

I know the game isnt balanced around 1v1 but most of the times it gives a clear picture about which class is OP and which is not... expect DP nerf soon 8) 8) 8)
Ironically enough, the new VE will increase the numbers of buffs we have to cast on ourselves after a spirit rez in battlegrounds to a whopping 7 (if fear ward is off CD).

New talent:

Your PW: Fortitude spell automagically blesses you with Inner Fire and PW: Shadow Protection. If in Shadowform it will also cast Vampiric Embrace on yourself.

[adezero]

Ironically enough, the new VE will increase the numbers of buffs we have to cast on ourselves after a spirit rez in battlegrounds to a whopping 7 (if fear ward is off CD).

lol so true. die in a bg, get rez'd. Shadowform -> Inner Fire -> Fort -> Spirit -> Shadow Prot -> Fear Ward

gonna have to stick VE in there

[Deleted]

I think it's time to make a macro (I hope 255 characters is enough)

[Direshadow]

Agreed.

While having the new VE buff is nice, it does add yet ANOTHER buff we need to cast on ourselves.

It seems like now it's a "must have" buff as well as a required talent for Shadow Form. It's also a trademark buff for Shadow Priests.

Why not just make it a permanent buff, like an aura that persists through death.

I can just imagine myself in battlegrounds now. After I die, I re-cast VE / Inner Fire / PW: Fort / Shadow Prot / Spirit / fear ward if it's up


christ

[Abandon]

It costs no mana, so it doesn't really matter if you have to cast it after you res. Just make a castsequence macro with Vampiric Embrace at the end.

Plus if it was an aura we couldn't click it off when we need to.

[Thragh]

Cast SF-->fort->spirit-->Shadow protection (mana free buffs ends)-->Inner fire--> FW ---> VE

The first four are the most expensive so cast them while they are free, Inner fire is 503 mana at 80 so it is the cheapest so use the mana free peroid for the others. And like Abandon said, it's mana free so do VE last.

The amount of buffs doesn't really matter unless you are getting camped at the GY and can't get your buffs up beofre you are ready to fight, but you shouldn't get camped and blizz wouldn't balance around this.

[Imyourpally]

After I die, I re-cast VE / Inner Fire / PW: Fort / Shadow Prot / Spirit

Anyone got a macro for this?

[Wogga]

too lazy?

[Shad47]

Well with the scaling that we now have with haste, sure SP will take haste gear, seeing the poor crit % we have in pvp with high resilience...

After all, the faster the dots tick, the faster we regen with VE.

[Direshadow]

Well after some looking into it, i've decided that i'm going to go for the pants from wintergrasp, and get the furious gladiators haste neck, and the wrists from wintergrasp as well.

All three of those pieces have haste on it. I swear, people on the PTR keep going on about how much damage shadow priests do with haste. I'm excited.


I'm almost wondering if I should re-gem my spell pen gems as well... I mean it makes sense since everything is going to be going FASTER now.

[talrob]

I know its being lazy but I would prefer VE to be made like paladins RF aka perma until you log off, purely because 7.5 second rebuff in Bg is annoying.