Balance Druid Changes - Can someone help me understand?

[Boomkindance]

Im getting ****** pissed at this nerf, Balance druid have had a Shitty Dps all damn WotLK and before that, and when we finally get viable dps in atleast PvE it only takes two patches and we're nerfed again, and YES this is a big nerf, since we basicly got one solar for free after each lunar eclipse and we needed that to keep up with all the other classes. now we need to stack damn crit again to have a viable dps.... and our t10 is probably poorly itemized as usually

A. We dont have shitty dps

B. Its not a big nerf, we'll get by, we were competitive before it, we'll be competitive after it

C. T10 for Balance Druids is one of the best itemized sets in the game. no spirit, 3pc's of haste + crit and 2 pieces of Hit + crit.

D. What do you mean "now we need to stack damn crit again" ever since eclipse has been around crit has been our premier stat to stack.

[Deleted]

D. What do you mean "now we need to stack damn crit again" ever since eclipse has been around crit has been our premier stat to stack.

Not quite, the old 3.0 Eclipse allowed for stacking haste if you had enough haste (or crit if you favored solar and a crit itemization). It's only the Eclipse has been changed to allow us to make use of it's two facets that the haste soft cap has become a concern for all moonkins and (since it was easy to reach) that crit came forward in comparison).

[Kilari]

A. We dont have shitty dps

B. Its not a big nerf, we'll get by, we were competitive before it, we'll be competitive after it

C. T10 for Balance Druids is one of the best itemized sets in the game. no spirit, 3pc's of haste + crit and 2 pieces of Hit + crit.

D. What do you mean "now we need to stack damn crit again" ever since eclipse has been around crit has been our premier stat to stack.

A. Sry for being unclear, i haven't played since Ulduar though im still following all the changes. and during ulduar our Dps was crap,

B
the Eclipse buff in 3.2 was great and increased out dps to make us competitive. Thanks to addons like Wise eclipse and similar addons we would chain Eclipse 90% of the time because we had massive Crit on the last starfire. When we could use Wise eclipse we had a competitive dps, but now when we have to wait up to 8 seconds if we are unlucky with crits (35% critchance x 2 seconds ~6 seconds + one additional unlucky cast) this means we 1 Screw up our Rotation and 2 have lower dps for that eclipse rotation.

[superstargoddess]

This subject is going places since I called Qieth out on his guild having overall lower dps, allowing him to be in the "Top 5" in his guild.

I really didn't mean to start a shit storm on that and it was not intended as a personal attack on him or his guild. However, I was just remembering on my last server and last guild (in a good guild for the server at the time) that our dps was doing a lot more, as far as the "pures" go. So to see his "pures" doing a good bit less, it immediately made me notice why he was one of their top dps.

I never intended it to sound like I was saying that his guild sucked or anything, I was just saying though, when you compare things in relation to each other, the perspective can be a lot different.

Basically: If you compare me (average looking girl) to a bunch of fat and ugly girls, I'm going to look reeeeally freakin hot. However, if you compare me to Marilyn Monroe & Shakira & Katherine Hiegl- I'm not going to look so hot. :P (Not saying that his guild is a bunch of fat and ugly girls either)

[Deleted]

we were poo in ulduar ? if I remember correctly we were quiet high and at that gear level we were doing quiet well... I was anyway...remember naxx?? great time for being a moonkin also.

For people who do not use wise eclipse ; they will not notice a change
For people who do use it ; it's prolly about a 200DPS (rough guess) of a loss.

[Deleted]

Just saying, if you are in the top 5 dps and you are a Boomkin, then the rest of your pure dpsers are lacking badly if they are all behind you. (For 25 man Togc)

"Lacking badly" is very extreme compared to reality. Again, large argument here, and the comments from others are quite interesting, as we reach a sort of concensus that "its not really that bad": http://qieths-quips.com/moonkin-damage-sucks/

Im getting ****** pissed at this nerf, Balance druid have had a Shitty Dps all damn WotLK and before that, and when we finally get viable dps in atleast PvE it only takes two patches and we're nerfed again, and YES this is a big nerf, since we basicly got one solar for free after each lunar eclipse and we needed that to keep up with all the other classes. now we need to stack damn crit again to have a viable dps.... and our t10 is probably poorly itemized as usually

Chillax. Its not nearly as bad as you put it.

my question is really is this a good use of starfall to try and help circumvent the RNG of that first eclipse proc (NG up constantly during starfall = more wrath casts = more chances to proc eclipse) or not?

I used to think this, but im not really as fussed about it these days. Starfall is one of the highest damage abilities we can use an GCD on (after Treants, if they are allowed to live :P), but i find that i will crit very quickly with my wrath spam anyways, and that will pump my NG up. Once NG is running, i can manage three wraths before it falls off, and just one of them has to crit - and thats not a problem at all. You can pop it in the beginning of a fight, but only for its damage - i wont make more than a few seconds of difference on NG

I really didn't mean to start a shit storm

This was part of the reason why i made the post i have linked you a few times now. We all tend to get a bit heated, so i wanted to get some closure (on my part, at least).

[Thalur]

For people who do not use wise eclipse ; they will not notice a change
For people who do use it ; it's prolly about a 200DPS (rough guess) of a loss.

Actually, it's more like 500 (granted, depends on rng), and with this it is a direct nerf to Boomkins. Every end-game tier (ToGC25) raiding Boomkin takes advantage of this mechanics one way or the other, so calling it a flat nerf is the way to go.

If Blizz just wanted to get rid of WiseEclipse, they should do that without nerfing our DPS. So either change the mechanics in a way that works as well as the old version with WiseEclipse, or buff our dps somewhere else to even it out.

[superstargoddess]

"Lacking badly" is very extreme compared to reality. Again, large argument here, and the comments from others are quite interesting, as we reach a sort of concensus that "its not really that bad": http://qieths-quips.com/moonkin-damage-sucks/
Chillax. Its not nearly as bad as you put it.
I used to think this, but im not really as fussed about it these days. Starfall is one of the highest damage abilities we can use an GCD on (after Treants, if they are allowed to live :P), but i find that i will crit very quickly with my wrath spam anyways, and that will pump my NG up. Once NG is running, i can manage three wraths before it falls off, and just one of them has to crit - and thats not a problem at all. You can pop it in the beginning of a fight, but only for its damage - i wont make more than a few seconds of difference on NG
This was part of the reason why i made the post i have linked you a few times now. We all tend to get a bit heated, so i wanted to get some closure (on my part, at least).

If you mean by "its not really that bad" that it's not like we're doing 3kdps, then alright. :P But compared to kitty druids, our dps makes me want to pull my eyes out. At least the spriests are still below us in dps. >< But other "hybrids" are all above us. Depending on the circumstances, I out dps other hybrids or have the same, but for ones that are talented and have the same gear level as I do, they wipe the floor with us.

I'm not saying that our dps SUCKS sucks, I'm just saying that compared to everyone else, especially other hybrids, it sucks. I'm happy with the dps that I do, but that doesn't mean that everyone else in the guild is. And it's not just me, an officer and I just had a discussion about lackluster Moonkin in general dps the other day when I was saying that I would like to be Resto from now on. Sure, my dps isn't as high as yours, my gear probably isn't as good as yours and I also get a little offtrack sometimes. But not offtrack enough to not be able to say that boomkin dps still sucks. :P

I'll read your link that you posted later. I have stuff to do and have to go. ><

[liverpool]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=301&e=570

This is a Jaraxxis fight on my Moonkin druid, who by no means is in BiS gear. The DPS this night was some of the worst I've done (as far as Eclipse Uptime goes) in a long while. My gear is getting better, and to say the very least, my dps is scaling with that gear. I do, however, find it uniquely intriguing that a mage can press all of three buttons and faceroll to 10k dps on most fights...

In my honest opinion, moonkins need something to help them out. In comparable gear a moonkin druid should be doing comparable dps to a ret paladin (hybrid with massive buffs), Death Knight (Hybrid with ridiculous buffs)... etc.

Take my battle res, put it in the resto tree, for all I care. People shouldn't be dying to need 5 battle resses in a fight, anyway. Sure, Blizz said they expect people to be dying in ICC a lot, but either way, I will trade my "Amazing unique class buffs (I'm still trying to figure out what buff can't be covered by other classes, hit ... spell crit ... 13% spell damage)" for the opportunity to be a competitive DPS. My buffs don't make up for the 7,000 dps I trail many pures in some fights, and they definitely don't make up for the lack of DPS output I receive when trying to move (lol eclipse while moving...)

I'm not making very good points right now because I'm at work, but jesus we need revamped BADLY. You FORCE us to make eclipse the only way for us to be competitive and when we find a way to make that work for us, you take it away. It's like "lol t8.5 2pc is REALLY nice for your only great dps talent, but we feel its overpowered. You should be sitting around 4k dps, competing with Naxx25 geared DKs."

Edit: No offense Boomkindance, but you'd be much better off using 2pct8.5/2pct9.5 ... Just throwing that out there, not that you care.

Also, I was healing most of the night for the WWS posted, but you can go through the guild history and find that its tough to compete in a guild clearing all content with a moonkin, regardless of talent. I'm lucky to finish in the top 5-10 on northrend beasts, where there is no aoe and not much moving. Go go RNG!

[Aluana]

I used to think this, but im not really as fussed about it these days. Starfall is one of the highest damage abilities we can use an GCD on (after Treants, if they are allowed to live :P), but i find that i will crit very quickly with my wrath spam anyways, and that will pump my NG up. Once NG is running, i can manage three wraths before it falls off, and just one of them has to crit - and thats not a problem at all. You can pop it in the beginning of a fight, but only for its damage - i wont make more than a few seconds of difference on NG

actually even if all 3 of them crit there's still only a 60% chance to proc a lunar eclipse from each one of them... you cant say that you're 100% guarenteed to proc lunar eclipse while under the effect of your first NG if just 1 of those wraths crit...

RNG is RNG... you cant predict it... at all