Did Blizz make a mistake with DK's?

[Khron]

Yes, in the very beginning, when Blizz took the stand point of Hero = OP, but now they changed it to Hero = just get to 55 and be OP til 70 then you're normal like everyone else

[Deleted]

not imo, their overpowered but some people actually have fun playing it.. so no mistake at all, its not about being OP its about having FUN.

[ezay]

not imo, their overpowered

Hello sir from the past, this is a message from the future: DKs will be nerfed to the ground in 3.2 and won't be "overpowered" after that.

[Carrious]

I always thought they made a mistake with the whole 55 thing. But it had an epic questline so meh. but at 80 theres SO many of them i think they contribute to both the lag in dal and spam in tradechat. :-X

[Brince]

The real mistake was the start at lvl 55. With this everyone and his mother, brother, uncle, granpa and cousin made a dk.
The OP thing was normal imo, you can't tune a class in one week, it took years to fix the other classes. With the previous nerfs now dk are fine, the real problem is there're too many of them because you can skip all azeroth levelling.

[Eldrea]

what made DKs too powerful was their tanking abilities wrapped into their damage abilities.

they were like a ret paladin with instant self heals and tank cooldowns.

DKs were put in their place pvp-wise, yes, but have you looked at the damage meters lately? (this only applies to people who are up to anub in ToGC 25.) DKs top damage on just about every single hardmode encounter out right now. yes, mages are pulling anywhere from 8-14k on some encounters, but DKs are consistently doing 10-15k dps as Unholy right now. wandering plague does more damage than their auto-attacks.

i don't know why a class that is considered a "tank hybrid", just like warriors, is consistently pulling more DPS than pure DPS classes. it might just be the encounters, but every single fight in ToGC 25? some of our mages have better gear than the DKs, although they're always second underneath them. no, i don't think it's a player problem, because one of the DKs that does pull that much DPS can pull the same numbers on certain fights with his mage alt that is also in the guild.

DKs are still out of control in PVE if you ask me. they don't suffer a single bit from the alleged "hybrid tax", yet they can play a tank role AND buff the raid significantly no matter what tree they spec into. how does any of this make sense when you have elemental shamans/demo locks/shadowpriests that can barely out DPS boomkins? (demo locks are a pure DPS class for christ sakes!)
yet Unholy can give the 13% debuff, tank, spec pvp as any tree and pull 14k dps?

DKs are not where they should be by any stretch of the imagination.

edited: either that or DKs are a perfect class and every other class needs to be as stream-lined as DKs - and that's what i think is happening in Cataclysm. Blizzard knows how they fudged up, believe me.

This, pretty much...DKs bring so much to a raid and provide so much dps that it is sickening

[blargh312]

Yes, in the very beginning, when Blizz took the stand point of Hero = OP

You know they never actually took that standpoint, right?

[Frostweaver]

why calling u a troll? beacouse u act like one.. trolling with themes like this? lol reading the first part of your post i was looking .... ok it has some sense to it but then when u wrote the second one i was lmao that u went to fight against PvP geared player not class cos almost every pvp gearerd player that knows his class can beat the pve gear/speced players... and kinda felt like u made the post from all the nerd rage thus trolling like mad cos u think pallys can win and should win against everyone?

[Chasey]

why calling u a troll? beacouse u act like one.. trolling with themes like this? lol reading the first part of your post i was looking .... ok it has some sense to it but then when u wrote the second one i was lmao that u went to fight against PvP geared player not class cos almost every pvp gearerd player that knows his class can beat the pve gear/speced players... and kinda felt like u made the post from all the nerd rage thus trolling like mad cos u think pallys can win and should win against everyone?

It was a story you nit wit, I complimented him if you really read it. His actions were classless after I LOST to him. That is indicitave of the person not the class.
It was not NERD rage by any means. If you seen it like that you are a tool and were looking to troll. I don't really care what you "kinda" felt like when you read it.
The point of that was it was a great fight, between 2 great classes his pvp my pve. Read it again before you call trolls, cause that is exactally what u r doing.
No I won't win against everyone. L2comprehend.

[blargh312]

why calling u a troll? beacouse u act like one.. trolling with themes like this? lol reading the first part of your post i was looking .... ok it has some sense to it but then when u wrote the second one i was lmao that u went to fight against PvP geared player not class cos almost every pvp gearerd player that knows his class can beat the pve gear/speced players... and kinda felt like u made the post from all the nerd rage thus trolling like mad cos u think pallys can win and should win against everyone?

Wait, he's trolling because you made an unfounded assumption about why he made this thread? Flawless logic...

That paragraph about 1v1ing a DK had nothing to do with his question and was nothing more than a random anecdote he had about DKs. He wasn't QQing or nerd raging or screaming for nerfs. And way to put words in his mouth with the whole "you think pallies should beat everyone" thing.

[Wolfster]

Is the troll obvious?

Yes.

and by that ur not trolling urself??

oh wait u spot a troll...u win a cookie

[Sulika]

Ok, I usually try to avoid feeding the trolls but here goes.

what made DKs too powerful was their tanking abilities wrapped into their damage abilities.

they were like a ret paladin with instant self heals and tank cooldowns.

I'm assuming this is talking about the past and so irrelevent to the current state of affairs. I don't think anyone would claim that is the situation now.

DKs were put in their place pvp-wise, yes, but have you looked at the damage meters lately? (this only applies to people who are up to anub in ToGC 25.) DKs top damage on just about every single hardmode encounter out right now. yes, mages are pulling anywhere from 8-14k on some encounters, but DKs are consistently doing 10-15k dps as Unholy right now. wandering plague does more damage than their auto-attacks.

Lies plain and simple. DKs are top on two fights in TotGC 25, Faction Champs which is arguably due to a bug whereby DK AoE doesn't get scaled down and Anub'arak. On the other 3 encounters DKs are not the top DPS class. That DK do so well on both fights comes down a lot to the happy coincidence that the T9 4 piece bonus massively boosts DK AoE damage at a time when two of the five bosses in the final tier raid both require DKs to do lots of AoE.

i don't know why a class that is considered a "tank hybrid", just like warriors, is consistently pulling more DPS than pure DPS classes. it might just be the encounters, but every single fight in ToGC 25? some of our mages have better gear than the DKs, although they're always second underneath them. no, i don't think it's a player problem, because one of the DKs that does pull that much DPS can pull the same numbers on certain fights with his mage alt that is also in the guild.

If your mages are doing less damage than your DKs on Northrend Beasts, Twin Val'kyr or Lord Jaxxarus it is because they either suck or are outgeared. Mages should be outdpsing DKs on all three of those fights. The DPS rankings within your guild do not correlate to those recorded over large numbers of log reports. The DPS rankings in your guild are just anecdotal evidence and totally worthless. Look up the overall state of play before making broad generalisations.

DKs are still out of control in PVE if you ask me. they don't suffer a single bit from the alleged "hybrid tax", yet they can play a tank role AND buff the raid significantly no matter what tree they spec into. how does any of this make sense when you have elemental shamans/demo locks/shadowpriests that can barely out DPS boomkins? (demo locks are a pure DPS class for christ sakes!)

Again just plain nonsense. DKs bring two buffs / debuffs. Horns of Winter (which can be provided much better by a shaman since they can improve it) and one class tree debuff. Either 10% melee AP as blood, melee haste as frost (which costs the frost DK 9 talent points to get which they would otherwise spend elsewhere, the single most talent expensive buff in the game) or the spell damage debuff as Unholy. All of these buffs / debuffs can be provided by other classes. The main reason Unholy DKs generally provide the spell damage debuff is because they would take those talents anyway while there is a talent cost to the other classes to provide it.

yet Unholy can give the 13% debuff, tank, spec pvp as any tree and pull 14k dps?

Spec PvP in any tree? If you mean that in the same way as a warrior can spec PvP as fury then yeah, but if you want to actually have any moderate level of success in PvP as a DK Unholy/Frost is your only real option. And even if you do how far is that going to get you?

Look at the top 100 arena teams in 2v2 - DK is least represented class (yes, behind hunters and druids), in 3v3 - DK is least represented class, in 5v5 DK are only 2nd last pulling slightly ahead of druids.

No matter how you want to cut it DK is right now the poorest performing class in PvP overall by a very large margin. DKs have lower arena representation than TBC hunters had without even a single strong bracket.

DKs are not where they should be by any stretch of the imagination.

edited: either that or DKs are a perfect class and every other class needs to be as stream-lined as DKs - and that's what i think is happening in Cataclysm. Blizzard knows how they fudged up, believe me.

Or the third option, you are either uninformed or a lying troll.

[Gronors]

I still think that DK's dps is a bit ahead of the rest of hybrids, but ok.

I cant see how DK's are a bit ahead of kitty's, but ok.

[Brince]

DKs were put in their place pvp-wise, yes, but have you looked at the damage meters lately? (this only applies to people who are up to anub in ToGC 25.) DKs top damage on just about every single hardmode encounter out right now. yes, mages are pulling anywhere from 8-14k on some encounters, but DKs are consistently doing 10-15k dps as Unholy right now. wandering plague does more damage than their auto-attacks.

Again with this crap, i'm realy sick of it. Anub'arak HM is a damn gimmick fight, it's like saying that mages are OP because they top damage meters on jaraxus.

DKs are still out of control in PVE if you ask me. they don't suffer a single bit from the alleged "hybrid tax", yet they can play a tank role AND buff the raid significantly no matter what tree they spec into. how does any of this make sense when you have elemental shamans/demo locks/shadowpriests that can barely out DPS boomkins? (demo locks are a pure DPS class for christ sakes!)
yet Unholy can give the 13% debuff, tank, spec pvp as any tree and pull 14k dps?

This is stupid indeed. Pala tanks bring one bless + hand of freedom, hand of protection + judgements + divine sacrifice. Warrior brings sunder armor + battle shout + commanding shout + shatter throw. So what? Everyone brings many buffs even if they're tanks and like they said before, our buffs are easily overwritten by MM hunters (the ap bonus), enha shamans (horn of winter and icy talons), moonkin druids (ebon plague).
Learn our class before posting crap sir.

[MysteryBDK]

Again with this crap, i'm realy sick of it. Anub'arak HM is a damn gimmick fight, it's like saying that mages are OP because they top damage meters on jaraxus.

This is stupid indeed. Pala tanks bring one bless + hand of freedom, hand of protection + judgements + divine sacrifice. Warrior brings sunder armor + battle shout + commanding shout + shatter throw. So what? Everyone brings many buffs even if they're tanks and like they said before, our buffs are easily overwritten by MM hunters (the ap bonus), enha shamans (horn of winter and icy talons), moonkin druids (ebon plague).
Learn our class before posting crap sir.

Cant say anything more than what this sir says. Learn our class...but more important >> learn your own class to see what buffs they bring. Reading these comments you can easily pick out the people who either are total noobs as it come to dk's or the people that play a dk but never raid end content with them.

So>> end conclusion : dont post here if you dont know what the hell youre talking about.

[billymont]

plz change the thread title to "Did mmo-champion make a mistake allowing me to start threads?"

[Chasey]

plz change the thread title to "Did mmo-champion make a mistake allowing me to start threads?"

Because I come to MMO to ask a question of the DK community? Sorry I wasted your time of having you come in the thread and asnwer a question about a DK.YOu cleared all of my and most of the other questions up with that humdingger of an answer. Thanks.
Maybe you should have your posting allowance changed to "I should only post when I'm going to be insightful and helpful".

[Hallis]

I think DK tank survivability is a little lacking on raid content here lately. As far as DPS and utility though i think they are fine still. I'm one of the few raid DK's that we've got and I tank. I'm usually Add tank or something since I never screw that up but have tanked a few Ulduar/ToC bosses. And it seems that I'm taking hits for more damage more often than my Druid/Warrior counterparts of similar gear level. It's been hard to gem enough stam and still keep good dodge/parry. I think the dodge/parry changes they made and the armor from frost presence nerf hurt DK tanking quite a bit. But DPS seems to not be effected.

[bigjenk]

This is why I think people need to actually LEARN about another class before complaining about them...

That DK you fought is not frost. I actually don't even believe the story to begin with. Since you said he summoned his gargoyle, then he is unholy, not frost. Frost is the tanking tree. If you are prot, you shouldn't be able to beat an unholy (DPS) Dk in 1 on 1 pvp anyways.

Why do people continue to say frost is the tanking tree. Blood has been "the serious" tanking tree since the lichborne+ boneshield synergy and avoidance nerf that let boneshield be up 85+% of the time.

[billymont]

Because I come to MMO to ask a question of the DK community? Sorry I wasted your time of having you come in the thread and asnwer a question about a DK.YOu cleared all of my and most of the other questions up with that humdingger of an answer. Thanks.
Maybe you should have your posting allowance changed to "I should only post when I'm going to be insightful and helpful".

clearly you're a nerdrager. you got pwnt by a DK in a 1v1, which i dunno how many times the "community" and GC has said "PVP ISNT BALANCED AROUND 1V1", got butthurt about it and then ran to the forums to tell us about your butthurtedness. it's pointless.