Prot spec question

[Ronark]

3) It's don't not doesn't.

It is do not not does not? ??? ??? ???

[Nillo]

Libram of Valiance is all you need for Heroics Dps (and a Death's Verdict can be nice as well) aside from that taking Conviction and Sanctity of Battle over Crusade, Vindication and PoJ is just uber fail.

[connected]

I had tried alot of tanking spec to match the boss fight and raid setup..

Its really up to the person who is tanking and his ability to try and match the raid, understanding the setup of the raid is also important as same debuff doesn't stack", so plan your talent carefully.

No raid will have a perfect setup any way, so just mix and match for the best.

There have been alot of debate on PoJ is it even good, but time will tell. You can say now that you won't need that talent as ICC doesn't need to you move alot when the tanking bug isn't fix -.- (i hate boss hitting me 50k from the back..) but you will never know if there is a boss that needs it.. aka TOGC Beast. Disarm on the other hand is more towards pvp? *shrugs* MAYBE the boss MC a rogue and come disarm you

Vindication for my case is a need, as i do not have a warrior in my 10man to do the debuff. So what happens when i'm tanking in 25? Well all i can say is either respec or stay with it. Its always good to have it as you might not always have a warrior running around and doing debuff for your target.

All these are base on my own experience from tanking, suggestion are welcome
Just remember, no raid setup is always perfect. If there is a perfect raid setup for every 10/25man raid then your very lucky

[Aedh]

Similar effects DOESN'T stack

[AK2EL]

Well here is the spec that I use for both raids and HCz (and soloing of all the IC dailies :P)

--> http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZV0...sIufdxb:NpLmcz

I use SoV and have lifeward on my blade (bcoz there are nobody with blade ward on my server > )

[Harmacy]

Well here is the spec that I use for both raids and HCz (and soloing of all the IC dailies :P)

--> http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZV0...sIufdxb:NpLmcz

I use SoV and have lifeward on my blade (bcoz there are nobody with blade ward on my server > )

Reckoning is a very poor threat talent, Seals of the Pure is inferior to Crusade, and you only need one point in Spiritual Attunement. You're also missing the Seal of Vengeance glyph, which is fantastic for threat.

Lifeward is a crappy enchant. Get anything else - accuracy, blade ward, blood draining, mongoose, weapon chain, +26 agility - they're all superior to Lifeward. It simply doesn't return enough health to be of any use.

[AK2EL]

Reckoning is a very poor threat talent, Seals of the Pure is inferior to Crusade, and you only need one point in Spiritual Attunement. You're also missing the Seal of Vengeance glyph, which is fantastic for threat.

Lifeward is a crappy enchant. Get anything else - accuracy, blade ward, blood draining, mongoose, weapon chain, +26 agility - they're all superior to Lifeward. It simply doesn't return enough health to be of any use.

Exactly why I have Reckoning, more hits = more health from my "crappy" enchant :P

[Harmacy]

Um, that's very poor reasoning. Reckoning is the weakest threat talent you can get, especially compared to the awesomeness that is Crusade in the ret tree, and Lifeward is the weakest EH enchant you can get, especially compared to Blood Draining which is basically the same thing as Lifeward (except useful).

Just because your crappy talent and crappy enchant sync up somewhat does not mean that either is good.

[Aedh]

Now I can't view your spec, wowhead be blocked on gov computers, so I can't say anything other than this.
I like reckoning. I really do. But you are picking it for the wrong reason. It's a threat talent that is all. And the weakest threat talent you can pick up that only has real use when tanking trash and heroics, which is why I have 3/5 reckoning I don't raid and only run heroics due to being out of sync with my server by 11 hours.
If you are skipping out on other threat talents which are much stronger, like Crusade or even SotP so you can use a very very very weak EH enchant, I have to ask why?
Ditch lifeward and get a titanium weapon chain at least, and with you being able to de dungeon drops so long as there is an enchanter in the group getting the mats for +26 agil is easy.

[Bunter]

ok i cant say i read every single word of every single post, but i think you're all missing something way more important than Conviction vs SotP or whether to get Vindication...

any how I'm think of going http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZy0x...Iufzgc0t0c:Np0 (commanding for trash pulls lol dps)

commanding doesnt proc off judge, SoR, Avenger's Shield (dur...), and unlike some other seals it doesnt proc or apply its effect thru HotR. for a prot paly, commanding only procs off melee swings. so first of all, get rid of Commanding...

[Aedh]

ok i cant say i read every single word of every single post, but i think you're all missing something way more important than Conviction vs SotP or whether to get Vindication...

commanding doesnt proc off judge, SoR, Avenger's Shield (dur...), and unlike some other seals it doesnt proc or apply its effect thru HotR. for a prot paly, commanding only procs off melee swings. so first of all, get rid of Commanding...

Seal of Command does proc off of Judgements if you have atleast one point in JotJ. It also procs off of Shield of Righteousness as of 3.3.
Alone it's not a big deal, but if you add at least 1/5 reckoning, giving your more white swings, it does lots of shiny yellow numbers when tanking large packs of quickly killed mobs.
Also SoC procs can crit, and it will proc vindication.

[Karot]

So I've been doing a lot of heroics with this new LFG tool never have to wait more then 30 seconds at prot, any how I'm think of going http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZy0x...Iufzgc0t0c:Np0 (commanding for trash pulls lol dps) and I was wondering if you fellow palys think that would work in a 25 man ICC raid, I'm Ret MS but I still OT alot for my guild as were just starting. PS in heroics any one else taking off half there gear lol, (using half my ret set in heroics main reason I want to try this build for crazy dps as prot)

That spec is not worth using even if you're just using it for heroics. Especially if you want to start tanking ICC-25, you'll want something more effictive.

First, some notes:

- 4/5 Divinity - Worthless, waste of talent points.

- 2/5 Benediction - Negligible, waste of talent points.

- Seal of Command - Decent for trash tanking, worthless for bosses since Seal of Vengeance is better threat.

- Judgments of the Just, Vindication - You missed out on picking up 2 of our best EH talents, one reduces boss attack speed, and the other reduces boss attack power.

- Improved Judgments - You missed out on this one as well, since you want at least 1/2 here for a smoother 969 tank rotation.

- Pursuit of Justice - The extra movement speed is divine. And just.

- Divine Sacrifice/Divine Guardian - Helloooo raid wall! These abilities got re-worked and buffed in 3.3. Massive raid damage incoming? Throw up Divine Sacrifice and then CANCEL the Divine Sacrifice aura (make a macro to cancel it). The Divine Guardian (raid wall) buff will stay up, which is a huge boost to the raid.

- Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous - Great for trash tanking when there are packs of more than 3. Situational, and useless for bosses.

- Glyph of Judgment - Nice for threat, but you may be better off with something else if threat isn't an issue.

Here is a better spec, and the one you should use.

Why the glyphs I selected?

- Glyph of Seal of Vengeance - Expertise is our #1 threat stat now until soft-capped. Absolute must if you're not reaching the soft-cap through your gear (don't gem or enchant for it, though)

- Glyph of Righteous Defense - Since you're likely not hit-capped, this glyph is imperative for progression tanking. Taking this glyph means that both of your taunts will never miss.

Hope this helps you out.

[Prentice]

Here is a better spec, and the one you should use.

Why the glyphs I selected?

- Glyph of Seal of Vengeance - Expertise is our #1 threat stat now until soft-capped. Absolute must if you're not reaching the soft-cap through your gear (don't gem or enchant for it, though)

- Glyph of Righteous Defense - Since you're likely not hit-capped, this glyph is imperative for progression tanking. Taking this glyph means that both of your taunts will never miss.

Hope this helps you out.

I agree with all but one of your talent points. You only need 1/2 Imp Judgments to maintain 969. You could put that extra point into Imp Might. Its not uncommon for a raid or party to me missing a dps warrior or ret paladin. Providing a little extra AP for your melee is a nice thing and something that not a lot of holy pallys spec for.

[Karot]

I agree with all but one of your talent points. You only need 1/2 Imp Judgments to maintain 969. You could put that extra point into Imp Might. Its not uncommon for a raid or party to me missing a dps warrior or ret paladin. Providing a little extra AP for your melee is a nice thing and something that not a lot of holy pallys spec for.

I used to do that, but found that having 2/2 Imp Judgments provides more versatility that just having 1/2 Imp. BoM. 2/2 is almost always covered by Rets and/or Holy Pallys, so I prefer having the extra versatility of 2/2 Judgments for picking up adds more quickly or w/e: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Like it says in the linked guide, neither one is game-breaking and it's a personal choice. 2/2 Imp. Judgments just "feels" right lol

[Prentice]

I used to do that, but found that having 2/2 Imp Judgments provides more versatility that just having 1/2 Imp. BoM. 2/2 is almost always covered by Rets and/or Holy Pallys, so I prefer having the extra versatility of 2/2 Judgments for picking up adds more quickly or w/e: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Like it says in the linked guide, neither one is game-breaking and it's a personal choice. 2/2 Imp. Judgments just "feels" right lol

On my realm, ret pallys are becoming pretty scarce. It seems that everyone of them has rerolled a mage, druid, or warlock. The holy pallys that I have encountered recently are all spec'd something like 52/19/0. Having only 1/2 Imp Judgements certainly isn't mandatory. In heroics, 2/2 Imp Judgements is very nice for snagging the stray mob that your shield missed (wtb hit rating). Its just a preference of mine.

[mograineprotpally]

Eh I've mentioned it before. At any rate, I at least made him take DS/G over Reckoning.

Perhaps make the argument in a way that promotes his ego. "If I die to being retarded and standing in fire the raid can survive but the debuff i provide will be gone and thus weaken the chances of the raids success. However, if you provide the debuff yourself, me dying does not hamper the raid anymore then the dps loss."

[Prentice]

Perhaps make the argument in a way that promotes his ego. "If I die to being retarded and standing in fire the raid can survive but the debuff i provide will be gone and thus weaken the chances of the raids success. However, if you provide the debuff yourself, me dying does not hamper the raid anymore then the dps loss."

So if I am reading this the way I want to I read, "RONARK STANDS IN FIRE!!!"

[Nillo]

So if I am reading this the way I want to I read, "RONARK STANDS IN FIRE!!!"

Standing in Fires for Mana since 2.2!

Yes - he does!

[Prentice]

Yes - he does!

LOL

[Ronark]

So if I am reading this the way I want to I read, "RONARK STANDS IN FIRE!!!"

I do on Heroic when tanking and DP falls off :>