what i don't understand about the haste 'soft cap' and the HL build

[cornelious0_0]

One thing I've began considering is if it's worth stopping at the soft cap purely to allow higher tier upgrades that don't give haste. If I can get haste to the point where I can lose some on an upgrade and still stay about the soft cap I thought I'd still be good to go. As it was just said...increasing haste beyond 600 has VERY limited returns so I would think that if an upgrade increases everything from SP to mana to crit noticably but drops my haste, it would still be ok if I'm above the soft cap.

Obviously the more then better and we always want to maximize our HpS but I also don't want to pass up on boosting other stats through upgrades just because my haste would "only" be 650.

[Jeffx]

Doesn't this haste soft caps only affect instants?

For example, my Flash of Light shows 0.88 sec cast time.

Doesn't this mean there's no problem, but with instants like holy shock I'll have to wait 0.12?

oxx

[cornelious0_0]

I'm no expert but from what I understood, haste effects your GCD so theoretically your instant cast spells are closer together but I'm not sure where you're coming from with the 0.18 measurement.

You cannot cast faster then the GCD and I'm not sure if your FoL actually is at 0.88 or not. Someone might need to run the numbers but if you're just using the "stock" cast time and factoring in your haste rating you might be a little off.

[Ryme]

Doesn't this haste soft caps only affect instants?

For example, my Flash of Light shows 0.88 sec cast time.

Doesn't this mean there's no problem, but with instants like holy shock I'll have to wait 0.12?

oxx

At the soft cap you'll have A GCD of 1 second. This means, that even though you cast your FoL in under that, the GCD will prevent you from casting anything else until that 1 second has expired.

Holy light, is a long enough cast to continue benefiting from haste after this point. Whilst the extra haste will have no real effect on anything already at or under 1 second, anything above this will continue to benefit.

This is why it is a "cap" and Holy Light is the reason it is "soft".

[Deleted]

You can, just not currently in the game. Haste hard cap is just shy of 2000 Haste. This is when HL drops to 1 second and any more Haste would be 100% wasted.

Its not a hard cap if your spells can still be reduced with haste is it? you can still cast at 0.9 seconds. Just because the GCD cant go there, doesnt mean its a HARD cap.

A hard cap is something that has no effect after reaching that point. Haste will still reduce the cast time after 1 second GCDs - just the GCD wont go there.

[cornelious0_0]

At the soft cap you'll have A GCD of 1 second. This means, that even though you cast your FoL in under that, the GCD will prevent you from casting anything else until that 1 second has expired.

Holy light, is a long enough cast to continue benefiting from haste after this point. Whilst the extra haste will have no real effect on anything already at or under 1 second, anything above this will continue to benefit.

This is why it is a "cap" and Holy Light is the reason it is "soft".

That did straighten some things out. I suppose it's perfectly viable that your FoL cast time is at 0.88s...but you will be waiting the remaining 0.12s before you can cast another one. This is more relevant for FoL builds but it does still factor into a HL bomber...just not in the same way.

Clampy: The point is that even though you can get your cast time below 1s you can't continue to cast FoL's every 0.9 seconds...as you still have to wait for the GCD. As it has been said...HL is what makes it a soft cap. The haste cap effects FoL in a large way but to a reduced extent haste will still benefit HL beyond 600 as HL's cast time is long enough to allow it.

[Deleted]

Clampy: The point is that even though you can get your cast time below 1s you can't continue to cast FoL's every 0.9 seconds...as you still have to wait for the GCD. As it has been said...HL is what makes it a soft cap. The haste cap effects FoL in a large way but to a reduced extent haste will still benefit HL beyond 600 as HL's cast time is long enough to allow it.

I understand that completely on a patchwerk fight. But seeing as most of the fights require movement haste is useful however much you get.

Althought I did just think of a reason why my point is invalid.
When they got rid of the need for no casting macros. So if you press the spell in the last 0.2 seconds or so it will cast the next one immediately with no lag. If you have a GCD less than 1 second then the spell cast is interrupted and it has to cast when you press the button (not at the end of the cast)

[cornelious0_0]

I understand that completely on a patchwerk fight. But seeing as most of the fights require movement haste is useful however much you get.

Althought I did just think of a reason why my point is invalid.
When they got rid of the need for no casting macros. So if you press the spell in the last 0.2 seconds or so it will cast the next one immediately with no lag. If you have a GCD less than 1 second then the spell cast is interrupted and it has to cast when you press the button (not at the end of the cast)

True, and it is very valid to factor in required movement but I still believe that the chance for necessary spam healing outweighs having to sidestep between 2 casts every so often. To a certain extent I think that having to move can be compensated for by a solid strategy and good reactions but when it comes to having to spam you're only going to benefit so much and factoring in the soft cap can be more relevant.

[Omgimapencil]

Not everyone. Only the Bads.

This is so, so wrong. The SP/FoL build is completely viable, and if you look around, you'll find several paladins in some of the best guilds in the world using it.

[Raiss]

This is so, so wrong. The SP/FoL build is completely viable, and if you look around, you'll find several paladins in some of the best guilds in the world using it.

Because they don't understand math.

[Cactrot]

Because they don't understand math.

Or because YOU don't understand its benefits.

Even then it's not "wasted" as it allows for quicker response time. The HPS does not change however the time it takes to <Realize a target needs heal > Heal them > Heal goes off is lowered. FOL builds may not gain HPS from more then 700 haste but since the holy point of a FOL build is to raid heal more efficiently to say that haste is "wasted" is not entirely true if you look at it past a hard number.

Right, so it's only wasted if you're a competent healer. Chances are you're not going to get 2k haste without already being a competent healer.

[Raiss]

Or because YOU don't understand its benefits.

I do. And Holy Lights have more benefits than any flash of light spec. The flash only benefit is: his sacred shield is stronger. My Holy Light cast is almost the same as your flash, mana is not a big issue in both specs, but my heals are much stronger.

Actually, I remember that the first guild to complete Insanity had a SP paladin. And he was using a deadly libram. I mean, what is the sense of having a full SP gear and not to use the best libram? 1700 is really not hard, you know.