why REFUSE to buff??

[twinkleblur]

the only time i would validate not buffing is in pvp imo i feel you have a higher chance of dying and the buff going away then doing a dungeon. no clue why people dont buff in instances i see this most in ret pallys actually more than any other spec or class some people just dont buff. its just them.

[KhameleonN]

when it comes to pally buffs (being a tankadin) if theres a warrior in group, give kings to all. if not, give might to physical.


this is just a pet peeve of mine on my warrior getting might all the time

[Raptor]

In order to get threat so things aren't beating on the dps that opened all the way up too early (or decided to pull because I took time to buff and was manaless) I need enough mana for avenger's shield and consecrate, which I don't have after buffing.

For divine plea I need to be able to hit something for it to renew, which I can't do if I have to chase down the melee mob thats running after the ranged party members because I didn't have mana and you didn't attack my target with your 20k crits.

To gain mana from heals I need to be healed. Two things prevent this Usually I'm not being hit all that hard, and if I tried to pull without mana because I buffed as soon as I get a heal tossed on me guess who is getting beat on.. Hint it isn't me and I don't have enough mana for my "ZOMG get it off the healer" macro to work.

To gain mana from avoiding things they need to be trying to hit me. If I pull without mana odds are they aren't trying to hit me, they are trying to hit (hopefully) the impatient dps, or (hopefully not) the healer.

so, problem is impatient dd? or bananafingers which prevents you from clicking buff button?
mage can go invis, hunter - FD, DK can tank in any spec, same as warior or paladin (short amount of time ofc), nelf can shadowmeld, rogue can vanish, warlock can die in fire and delete his char, druid can go bear + barkskin and tank,
is it l2p issue? or as tank you can't taunt with low mana? or use manapotion? or ask rogue/hunter to tricks/MD thrash on you?
can't you type macro "hey, mr.rogue/hunter, i have no mana, so pull on me some mobs" if you have time to complain about this, you have time to write this. people learn nothing if you kick them from group

[zymry]

so, problem is impatient dd? or bananafingers which prevents you from clicking buff button?
mage can go invis, hunter - FD, DK can tank in any spec, same as warior or paladin (short amount of time ofc), nelf can shadowmeld, rogue can vanish, warlock can die in fire and delete his char, druid can go bear + barkskin and tank,
is it l2p issue? or as tank you can't taunt with low mana? or use manapotion? or ask rogue/hunter to tricks/MD thrash on you?
can't you type macro "hey, mr.rogue/hunter, i have no mana, so pull on me some mobs" if you have time to complain about this, you have time to write this. people learn nothing if you kick them from group

Ohhhh go for personal attacks thats a sure fire way to "win". I guess someone missed the memo about what "winning" on a forum is akin to. My fingers are lithe and perky thank you very much.

Yes all those classes and races can in fact do all those things I rarely see it happen in pugs but I know they can. Again I know because I've been there and done that on all of them when required. You know what else they are immanently capable of doing, and I guarantee you that any class, spec, and race can do it because I've seen them do it, actually there's 2.

1) wait patiently for everyone to get zoned in, wait the 6-10 seconds it takes me to buff and the ~10 seconds it takes me to get mana, the 3 seconds it takes me to get "lockdown" threat. Then it's non stop pulls and no deaths. Of course I never see this one in pugs. In pugs I see the next one

2) GOGOGO, die, yell and bitch.

[Fornaw]

sorrry even geared disc in heroics i feel scared. Im ret and if its a dk tank im gonna pull aggro. and if there is a disc priest in group i normally die 3 times in the heroic.

I love Disc healers in heroics, Pull aggo and you get a shield, if you still have aggro when the shield gets knocked off IT'S YOUR FAULT. Very few other healing specs have the power to instantly apply such a life saving heal.

Try healing idiot aggro pulling dps in a heroic as a druid. Goes something like this #1 warrior facepulled, pop wildgrowth, #2 mage attacked something MT has no threat on, rejuv+swiftmend will save them if you are lucky, if they attacked something that melee's pretty hard they won't live for 1 whole GCD #3 hunter doesn't know where he left FD, Hunter has to die because I am out of options to save your sorry butt.

The only real problem here is Ret DPS who think they have some inherent right to use divine storm the second the tank pulls a pack (or the ones who have 2pc T10 and think they are god's gift to trash dps). Divine Storm+SoComm is significantly more snap threat than most tanking classes have, you pulled an idiot, you don't deserve heals. Maybe next time you will learn to open with judgment and crusader strike on the MT's target.

[lilbandit]

3 more pages since I last read this thread, and still, not a valid reason for not buffing properly, and still more pallies arguing they don't need to buff properly

Gotta commend the ones that are saying they actually do buff correctly for the group rather than just kings all around. On my tankadin in instances, I would spend a couple seconds buffing properly, then drink/DP, then pull. If the group can't wait 20 seconds, why would you want to stay anyway? Just leave and go make a sandwich/cup of tea and return and get a proper group. Granted this was before 3.3 and the random dungeon finder came into play, so perhaps it really has got that terrible since then. Still not an excuse to start sucking yourself though. Rise above it, and try to elevate the scrubs a little by showing some good teamplay.

Oh and we all know buffing 1k dps "pros" is pointless, even if you put "blessing of suck less" they'd click it off themselves. The argument here is assuming the group is at least reasonably capable and the buffs would be beneficial to the group.

[ProphetNoata]

You sir, are an idiot. My DK tank (Blood) never has issues with threat. Based off your sig, you have over 2200 Str, which means you are geared(i cant be bothered to armory you). The tanks you have been rolling with are probably A- less geared than you, B- probably dps specced/frost pres, C- queuing as tank because you wont. If I happened to get you in my group and I saw you being lazy with dps, I would kick you instantly. If you are consistently getting terrible tanks, why don't you try tanking? These people are doing something you haven't even considered....

Now for my example. I'm leveling a warlock, currently level 72. Gear, mostly green, <1% hit rating, no hit talents, affliction. I'm even wearing crafted netherweave gear which is 10 levels BELOW me. When I join an instance, I see everyone staring at me, my guess at what they are thinking, is that they think my dps will suck! A few pulls in... I'm #1 with 2-3k dps. Am I pro at lock? No! I let dots fall off, I drop threat never, I never have a shard when I need it, I use seed way too much, I tank mobs and die almost every pull, I dont watch the meter... face it, I suck at warlock. My warlock = your Retardadin. The big difference here is this. My warlock rolls into the instance being the lowest geared of the group and you enter as (most likely) the most geared. L2P the class or roll prot and show them how its done.

Sir it is unwise to call me an idiot without looking at my armory.

1 im ret/holy atm. I do have a tanking set and i do tank every month. But right now guilds dont need tanks they need geared dps and heals.

2 No these guys are tanked spec/gear with 40k hp ub.

Im either running into extremely bad tanks or ret pally aoe is too OP for heroics.

[ProphetNoata]

3 more pages since I last read this thread, and still, not a valid reason for not buffing properly, and still more pallies arguing they don't need to buff properly

Gotta commend the ones that are saying they actually do buff correctly for the group rather than just kings all around. On my tankadin in instances, I would spend a couple seconds buffing properly, then drink/DP, then pull. If the group can't wait 20 seconds, why would you want to stay anyway? Just leave and go make a sandwich/cup of tea and return and get a proper group. Granted this was before 3.3 and the random dungeon finder came into play, so perhaps it really has got that terrible since then. Still not an excuse to start sucking yourself though. Rise above it, and try to elevate the scrubs a little by showing some good teamplay.

Oh and we all know buffing 1k dps "pros" is pointless, even if you put "blessing of suck less" they'd click it off themselves. The argument here is assuming the group is at least reasonably capable and the buffs would be beneficial to the group.

There is never gonna be a reason people will give you for not buffing properly. I did state earlier somethings that paladins may do if you dont give them time or you annoy them. Maybe you didnt see that but besdies that if a pally doesnt buff and you didnt annoy him or bug him b4 he was ready or start pulling before he got his mana back as a tank then its just the stupidity of others.

But still the fact that people are crying so much about it for a heroic is still something that is a waste of space. if you wanna QQ about it in a raid i will gladly support you and tell you that those paladins make my class look bad nut this whole thread has just been pointless. Idiots will be idiots and cry babies will be cry babies

[Bananengurke]

the other day I wanted to do a quick rnd heroic at like 3 in the morning, it was ahnkahet, so when the group was together we started, it was a really slow run, took relaly long to kill trash, but then just before the second boss i noticed that I didn't buff kings (meally healer), so i gave everyone a buff and all of a sudden we killed that boss and the last one in 20 seconds!! plus the run went wayyy faster from that point on!!!!
I will never forget to buff kinds EVERY again!!

[Daginni]

Lazy Paladins. The class has become as trashy as Death Knights because of all the 'OP Class Jumpers'.

[ProphetNoata]

the other day I wanted to do a quick rnd heroic at like 3 in the morning, it was ahnkahet, so when the group was together we started, it was a really slow run, took relaly long to kill trash, but then just before the second boss i noticed that I didn't buff kings (meally healer), so i gave everyone a buff and all of a sudden we killed that boss and the last one in 20 seconds!! plus the run went wayyy faster from that point on!!!!
I will never forget to buff kinds EVERY again!!

Im gonna call bs on this one. Screenshot or it didnt happen cause no matter how geared you are the second boss and the last boss(unless you mean spore boss which isnt the last boss) take more because the 2nd boss disappears 2 times which takes about 5-10 seconds off. And the last boss does insanity which it takes 20 seconds itself to kill all the adds.

[Stings]

Like, a greater blessing of (Insert Buff) cost like 150 COPPER, IS OVER 90, and then you time it with 5 people if your group is different classes, 750 Copper, thats like... a half and quarter of a gold... duuude

[Azyoulike]

Try healing idiot aggro pulling dps in a heroic as a druid. Goes something like this #1 warrior facepulled, pop wildgrowth, #2 mage attacked something MT has no threat on, rejuv+swiftmend will save them if you are lucky, if they attacked something that melee's pretty hard they won't live for 1 whole GCD #3 hunter doesn't know where he left FD, Hunter has to die because I am out of options to save your sorry butt.

I end up rolling rejuv on the aggro monkeys for the entire run. Sure it's aggravating, but it means I can react faster to their stupidity.

[Sharaki]

Sorry do you know what paladins use for dpsing heroics? Heard of our cleave seal? And when i switch to righteousness the dungeon takes 10 mins longer(literally no exaggeration) and i am still able to pull aggro of of dk tanks.

No these guys are tanked spec/gear with 40k hp ub

I know you're bad player Noata.. anyways. SoCcleave+DS aoe doesnt surpass normal tanks aoethreat unless youre spamming DS with t10 2p, your meleeswings and crusaderstrikes on wrong mob does. Thus if you are attacking tanks target you wont overagro, or if you rush in before tank and start with DS meaning tank cant have time to build threat when he's gathering mobs back. I recently met paladin like you, he did nice dps, always started to nuke mob that was absolutely offtanked (not even near me) saying "paladin does only aoe threat it doesn't matter what i dps" "crusader strike, you should use it?" "*player is ignoring you*"

On topic I like to buff people on my pally, althou I'm kinda lazy on my priest - who needs fortitude in old heroics. If they don't overgear place with current raiding gear those pallybuffs bring nice % more dps, if they do it's just for respect.

[Snes]

Sometimes it feels that way, but mostly they're dying to AoE splash. The funny thing is that they could easily heal themselves, but they're mostly to dumb/lazy to cast a heal on themselves even though I've TOLD them I'm not healing till they drop totems.

I view it as my contribution to evolution.

Your job is to heal, DPS is doing their job by DPSing. By having people drag your lazy, selfish ass through the instance, you aren't proving anything. Refusing to do your job is not even remotely related to evolution, I wouldn't even stretch that far enough to even say that it's artificial selection. You have the elitist attitude but lack basic education, go back to school. "Elitist" gets thrown around alot, but it definately applies to you. Have fun getting vote kicked and ignored by more and more people and watching your qeues get longer and longer.

As for totems, in heroics I could care less if they drop them, stuff like ancestral call costs alot of mana when you only use the totem buff for ~8 seconds before moving on. Especially for enhance shamans, dropping totems every pull is like having to give greater fortitude every pull, magma totem + fire nova is often good enough. You can't really argue shamanistic rage because you won't get any mana back since everything dies so fast, it pretty much only gives you a good return on bosses.

[foof]

bcuz why waste mana that you clearly cant regenerate to improve your partys' performance

[Markluzz]

i buff me and the healer when i tank. If the dps was under me in dps before buffs, the buffs wont put em over. If they were above me on dps, then they dont need it. that, plus the fact that it wipes out my mana pool. Sometimes if the dps is pro and/or nice, ill throw up the buffs mid pull when my mana is topped.

Yes but then the run goes slower and it'll take more time to get through the instance, face it everyone wants to faceroll through it as fast as they can. On my hunter even though the only buff i have is trueshot aura, I always have drums of kings+wild, and the fortitude scrolls to use if we dont have a priest, 2 pallys, or a druid, and if we dont i throw the buffs up wasting charges i could be using in our guild 10 mans on the 5 man pugs, there is no reason not to buff your group.

[fierceangel]

I don't buff if I'm asked to. After playing my class for 2 years I'm aware of the buffs my class can give, and then to have some DK in spell power gear asking me to "gief BoM" when theres a dps warrior in the group. Eugh.

[Raunoman]

Why refuse? CAUSE REAGENTS COST MUNIES!!!1



I guess. I could never buff faster.

[Azyoulike]

Your job is to heal, DPS is doing their job by DPSing.

Their job is also to buff appropriate, purge appropriately and do a ton of other stuff. By not dropping totems on trash their dps is lower than it otherwise would be. They're not doing their job at all.

By having people drag your lazy, selfish ass through the instance, you aren't proving anything.

On the contrary, I'm healing all the people who actually do their job, I'm just refusing to drag the shaman's lazy selfish ass through the instance.

Refusing to do your job is not even remotely related to evolution, I wouldn't even stretch that far enough to even say that it's artificial selection.

You're right, it's education with attitude.

As for totems, in heroics I could care less if they drop them, stuff like ancestral call costs alot of mana when you only use the totem buff for ~8 seconds before moving on. Especially for enhance shamans, dropping totems every pull is like having to give greater fortitude every pull, magma totem + fire nova is often good enough. You can't really argue shamanistic rage because you won't get any mana back since everything dies so fast, it pretty much only gives you a good return on bosses.

That's such bullshit. Lets just consider Mana spring - the cost is about 170, you get back 40 when you recall, so 130. Even if the trash only lived 8 seconds you'd get the cost back. If the trash lives longer, and it very often does, as so much dps in LFG is either fail or just slack - then you are gaining more precious mana. Moreover if trash is dying so fast, you can spend more time using watershield while running to the next pull - omg more mana!

Apparently mana is the biggest issue, so in that case the shaman should be dropping MS religiously! Yet somehow it is too hard. They could also switch shields between trash pulls while running - too hard also. Don't make excuses, this isn't about the mana costs, this is just about wanting to be lazy.

I've played enhance, and I've oomed myself, but it wasn't Mana Spring, SoE, or windfury that oomed me - it was timing CDs badly.