Holy/Disc hybrid that can...

[supa]

I was playing through the spec's and came up with this. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...zqVhhcz:0dbMVz
I was thinking through and wondering if this is even close to a viable hybrid build. It would allow for the use of PW:S and would be a spec that almost never runs out of mana while still maintaining the ability to heal for raids. Feel free to critic .

[Kuismar]

i don't see it working. you don't have any hot/aoe longevity of holy or the added healing from the increased poh coh talents, or the empowered renew talents. so if you go as a single target aka pali healer you are missing some flash heal talents to make it stronger/less mana intense.

[Deleted]

Will never work.

The 51-pointers in each tree are independantly very strong, and you have niether. A lot of the attraction of disc is that you have no mana problems, but you do not have any of the mana reducing talents.

You just sacrifice too much of the core out of each tree to get the basics of the other one.

Think of it, you can either be awesome at, say swimming or basketball. International standard. But, you choose to play ordinary club standard at both. It may be more fun for a bit, but you will never get anywhere with it.

[Liliyah]

I've run with two healers in the past who attempted similar hybrid builds. Both of them were nearly useless in a raid.

Disc and holy are two really strong trees, which is why I think some people are tempted to heavily blend the two in (aprox.) 30/40 point splits. The issue, however, is that a lot of the trees' strengths are in the bottom. You end up sacrificing a lot of holy's throughput for minor utility in disc: one that isn't really necessary as a holy priest. If you need to shield spam your raid as holy in order to keep them alive, something is horribly wrong.

[Incantator]

I have similar spec, but abit different: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...&gn=Solar+Wind

And it works.

Hybrid build is relying on flash heal as raid filler (not renew).

The difference between deep holy (flash based) and hybrid is following:

Holy has GS, Test of Faith, Divine Providence.
Hybrid has Soul Warding + Body&Soul Combo, +15% intellect, +6% spirit, +6% haste.

If you compare Disc PW:S and Hybrid PW:S, Disc PW:S absorbs only 1000 damage more the Hybrid one at the same spellpower. However, at same gear level PW:S from both specs will be equal - because in Disc you have only 2800 spellpower, while with same gear in holy you will have 3200 (+400 from Spiritual Guidance). PWS is used with Glyph of PWS, which in my equipment absorbs 6000 damage + 1200 damage healed by glyph.

Hasted greater heal has better hps potential then penance. (Gheal usually used more in 10man)

Hybrid has much better stats, then Holy build or Disc builds.

Oh, stats should be values by this proportion:

spirit : intellect : spellpower : crit : haste : mp5 : stamina = 5:4:3:3:2:2:1

[Kelesti]

I have similar spec, but abit different: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...&gn=Solar+Wind

Hybrid build is relying on flash heal as raid filler (not renew).

There are still Deep Holy builds that remain focussed from Flash Heal (they hate playing like a Druid, but a raid healing Paladin's okay? ??? )

The difference between deep holy (flash based) and hybrid is following:

Holy has GS, Test of Faith, Divine Providence.
Hybrid has Soul Warding + Body&Soul Combo, +15% intellect, +6% spirit, +6% haste.

Deep Holy can have Body & Soul, with no reason for Soul Warding (No Borrowed Time means Shield doesn't scale as well). The +15% Intellect isn't really needed as regen, and both that and the +6% spirit aren't really counting for output. The haste is nice, but not worth going that deep into Discipline.

If you compare Disc PW:S and Hybrid PW:S, Disc PW:S absorbs only 1000 damage more the Hybrid one at the same spellpower. However, at same gear level PW:S from both specs will be equal - because in Disc you have only 2800 spellpower, while with same gear in holy you will have 3200 (+400 from Spiritual Guidance). PWS is used with Glyph of PWS, which in my equipment absorbs 6000 damage + 1200 damage healed by glyph.

Okay, so let's do some real math here:
(base_absorb+(0.8068+0.08*BT)*sp)*(1+0.05*IMP)*(1+ 0.02*FP)*(1+0.01*TD)

base_absorb is the base absorb given the PW:S which is 2230 at the moment
BT is your Borrowed Time level
SP is your Spell Power
IMP is your Improved Power Word: Shield level
FP is your Focused Power level
TD is your Twin Disciplines level
You could probably throw Grace/Blessed Resilience/Test of Faith in there, but that's not really the point.

(2230 + (0.8068+0.08*0) * 3200) * (1+0.05*3) * (1 + 0.02*0) * (1+0.01*5)
(2230 + 0.8068*3200) * (1+0.15) * (1) * (1.05)
(2230 + 2581.76) * 1.15 * 1.05

You're getting a shield worth 5810 absorb value.
A Discipline Priest (ignoring Grace entirely) is getting 7043, counting the drop in 400 Spell Power. Might I also suggest that if you happen to have 1600 Spirit to make that big of a difference, you should look at dropping some of that regen for real thoroughput?

Hasted greater heal has better hps potential then penance. (Gheal usually used more in 10man)

Greater Heal is used more than Penance for two reasons. Penance is faster, stronger, cheaper for starters, often saved for "oh snap" moments. Secondly, it has a cooldown.

Hybrid has much better stats, then Holy build or Disc builds.

Raw Stats don't equate to thoroughput, at all, and wasted regen is still wasted.

Oh, stats should be values by this proportion:

spirit : intellect : spellpower : crit : haste : mp5 : stamina = 5:4:3:3:2:2:1

If I'm regen capped, why would Spirit or Intellect be at a 5:4:3 ratio above Spell Power, and you value crit above haste? Seriously?

[Zeuq]

There are still Deep Holy builds that remain focussed from Flash Heal (they hate playing like a Druid, but a raid healing Paladin's okay? ??? )

Not only that, but a deep Holy Flash Heal build will have Blessed Resilience, Test of Faith, and at least some points in Empowered Healing, so the Hybrid build gets 6% more Haste on the FH fillers, but the Holy Build will have ones that will hit considerably harder. You'd have a much easier time making up that 6% Haste than making up that throughput.

Deep Holy can have Body & Soul, with no reason for Soul Warding (No Borrowed Time means Shield doesn't scale as well). The +15% Intellect isn't really needed as regen, and both that and the +6% spirit aren't really counting for output. The haste is nice, but not worth going that deep into Discipline.

The B&S + SW sounds great, but really, how much more utility does it add? Do you really ever feel the need to spam PWS for the extra run speed? If you do, something is seriously wrong. As Kelesti points out with the math, that's still about the only thing PWS would be good for since Holy FH build will have FHs that heal for quite a bit more than that shield.

And similarly, as deep Holy, you really shouldn't be gemming for Intellect at all, and Spirit primarily as SP/Spirit in Blues, because the regen simply isn't needed, so the 15% Intellect and 6% Spirit are virtually worthless unless you're undergeared or desperate for regen, and either of which you can easily make up with some gem and spell selection changes.

Raw Stats don't equate to thoroughput, at all, and wasted regen is still wasted.
If I'm regen capped, why would Spirit or Intellect be at a 5:4:3 ratio above Spell Power, and you value crit above haste? Seriously?

Agreed, Raw Stats mean very little because the talents you have affect the value of the stats, and the ratio makes even less. I could see a priority like that, valuing Spirit and Int above SP and Crit above Haste, IF you need mana, but with a build that has more regen than Holy, which has very few mana issues as it is, that doesn't make much sense.

The primary benefit of that sort of build seems to be regen, which I could perhaps understand as a fresh 80 in poor gear since regen has been nerfed quite a bit since 3.0, but with the plethora of easily available high quality epics, I just don't see it.