Nevermelting Ice Crystal question for shadow

[Kelesti]

No. The haste scaling was removed several weeks ago ;-)

Except Glyph of Quick Decay says it wasn't removed several weeks ago. Their Spell Power/Crit rolling is still identical, but their auto-refresh mechanic was fixed to refresh haste buffs (although it has a bit of a delay on it to recalc).

So yes, it is exactly like Shadow Word: Pain. Except it's not even close.

[Nezoia]

Kelesti: The auto-refresh mechanic don't keep haste values from first application, opposite to crit. That's also how Shadow Word: Pain works.

The context of my answer were the auto-refresh mechanics related to the crit buff you gain when using the Nevermelting Ice Crystal trinket. The glyph is irrelevant, since doesn't change how the mechanics of Corruption work in the first place, but a specialized application.

So Corruption works like Shadow Word: Pain:

Both can be refreshed.
Both keep the initial critical strike rating from the the time of application.
Both uses the players current spellpower on tick application.

[fabian]

Kelesti: The auto-refresh mechanic don't keep haste values from first application, opposite to crit. That's also how Shadow Word: Pain works.

The context of my answer were the auto-refresh mechanics related to the crit buff you gain when using the Nevermelting Ice Crystal trinket. The glyph is irrelevant, since doesn't change how the mechanics of Corruption work in the first place, but a specialized application.

So Corruption works like Shadow Word: Pain:

Both can be refreshed.
Both keep the initial critical strike rating from the the time of application.
Both uses the players current spellpower on tick application.

SO you say the exact same thing Kelesti but do not admit that said quote Kelesti quoted was quite vague?

[Nezoia]

People on the internet have a huge problem understanding context

[Worshaka]

People on the internet have a huge problem understanding context

TBH you're both trying to be technically correct and to that end you are both right.

[harky]

Kelesti is right in that Corruption's DPS blows SW:P out of the water (and then some). She didn't say anything about the refresh mechanic being different... so yeah, you're both right. Who cares. NIC is so much better for Afflic purely because Corruption is 30%+ of your DPS, while SW:P isn't even remotely close to being that much of Shadow's DPS. Power wise Corruption and VT are the similar spells. Mechanically though? SW:P and Corruption are the same. Main difference? You don't have to deal with SW:P falling off mysteriously when the duration drops to 5 seconds due to procs. :P

[Kelesti]

I remember reading somewhere that you'd need over 100% haste to have Corruption actually fall off. ???

[Worshaka]

I remember reading somewhere that you'd need over 100% haste to have Corruption actually fall off. ???

Haste is multiplicative so under the effects of Bloodlust/heroism that is quite feasible, particularly if you have some on haste on use/proc trinkets and drink a speed pot during.

[Kelesti]

I know that it is quite possible to get a haste value over 100%, but I thought it capped much like Regen does (i.e. can never go above 100%).

[harky]

You can break 100%, but that does not equate to 0 cast time/duration. The problem is with Eradication + Haste Pot + BL + ~1100 haste you run into issues in real-world fights. At that point Corruption only lasts 7.75 seconds. It takes ~1.1 seconds to fire off a Shadow Bolt, but then it takes 1-2 seconds to land and it must land before the last tick. So if you need to move you can lose your Corruption and have to recast and lose 25%+ crit on it. You've got a window of ~3 seconds when you can stop casting a refreshing spell or you lose the stack.

And yeah, the above is 132% haste and is where my Lock sits during BL with Eradication up. If you have to move too much it's painful. You wind up using Drain Life (if above 25%, otherwise DS) to instantly renew the duration.

Now, if you could bring Corruption down to the GCD cap, that would be awesome. SB>Haunt then Corruption x8 -> Haunt, repeat. 30k DPS here we come.

[Myzrael]

Which makes it a rly rly good trinket definately worth it.

Only on bosses where you are 100% sure you can keep it up throughout the fight. There are many better trinkets, check shadowpriest.com for BiS gear.

So if you need to move you can lose your Corruption and have to recast and lose 25%+ crit on it. You've got a window of ~3 seconds when you can stop casting a refreshing spell or you lose the stack.

You're losing 25% crit only if your trinket is on CD, and usually bloodlust/heroism doesn't come in first 3mins.

[Abandon]

Indeed, most people think that 100% haste means 0 cast time. But Haste doesn't decrease your cast time, it increases your casting speed. So 100% haste would increase your casting speed by 100%, so you could cast twice as fast.

[Worshaka]

Indeed, most people think that 100% haste means 0 cast time. But Haste doesn't decrease your cast time, it increases your casting speed. So 100% haste would increase your casting speed by 100%, so you could cast twice as fast.

I'm gonna get technical here... the haste value describes casting speed which you succinctly point out but the by product of increased casting speed is decreasing your cast time, so in that respect you're not actually correct.

So while 100% haste does describe the ability to cast double the normal amount of spells, this results in reducing the cast time by 50% in order to physically be able to. As you can see this illustrates how haste describes casting speed and is therefore does not describe how it relates to reducing the cast time.

[Nezoia]

Also, haste is a exponential formula. You'll never get to instant casts with pure haste rating ;-)

[harky]

I'm gonna get technical here... the haste value describes casting speed which you succinctly point out but the by product of increased casting speed is decreasing your cast time, so in that respect you're not actually correct.

The point in keeping them separate is that 'reducing cast time' and 'increasing haste' have separate mechanics within the game engine. If you lump the two together it causes confusion. Reducing cast time is just that, it directly reduces the time it takes to cast a spell with 100% casting speed by a set amount. Increasing haste then modifies speed at which the cast is performed.

See: ( Cast time - cast reduction ) / ( 1 + ( haste percentage / 100 ) )