Cat 4pc and which off tier piece?

[klondikebear]

rawr doesn't have an export option so the list is:
4 piece 264 t10 with bladeborn leggings
sindragosa's cruel claw
shawl of nerubian silk
toskk's bracers
astrylian's sutured clutch
frostbitten fur boots
exalted ashen ring
saurfang's cold forged band
death whisper fanged skull
deathbringer's will
cryptmaker
idol of crying moon

it's quite possible there are better alternatives and i missed them, but this is under hit cap by 5 hit rating, 6 exp rating and 1341 arp. zero heroic gear
3 exp gems, 1 hit gem, 1 accurate..

[Auroro]

Show me a better option to get hit cap, exp cap, arm pen cap.

You have to ignore klondikebear.

The different in dps is small, about 38 dps different between Aldriana's Gloves and Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder

The only way to get hit cap, and exp cap is by gemming, alot of hit rating gem to reach 7.00% however the price of gemming those gems is lower ARP.

I will post the stat of all those off piece set before gemming and enchantment later.

[The Cat]

With a 7% hit cap Aldriana set-up might be better, but I am horde. The best set-up I can come up with, with all heroic gear and being hit/exp/arm pen capped is using Sack.

Similar to the one you posted, just heroic version, and using whispering fang skull instead of the haste badge one. Rawr and simulationcraft claim it is slightly better for that set-up. Which I find a bit odd since simulationcraft values haste a lot more than crit at that level

[klondikebear]

You have to ignore klondikebear.

The different in dps is small, about 38 dps different between Aldriana's Gloves and Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder

Why in the world would you intentionally gimp your dps just to be lazy? Like i said before, if you have 80 more expertise than me, i have to gem 80. but you'll have 80 less arp or hit or crit and have to gem for that. this is why there is NO bis for a kitty, however you're trying to claim that their is.

btw, the best theorycrafter's say 4 peice + Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy.. but why listen to them, it's not like they know what they are doing or anything

[The Cat]

Why in the world would you intentionally gimp your dps just to be lazy? Like i said before, if you have 80 more expertise than me, i have to gem 80. but you'll have 80 less arp or hit or crit and have to gem for that. this is why there is NO bis for a kitty, however you're trying to claim that their is.

By that logic it doesn't matter which off piece you use since you can just gem for the difference. Fact is some items are better itemized and allow you to create a better set-up.

Some theorycrafters do not value being hit/exp capped, some do. There will always be a debate over which gear setup is better since theorycrafting does not always translate into in-game play. In fact it rarely does, especially with feral dps where the margin of error is fairly large. The chances of actually reproducing a feral simulation with an "optimal" rotation in game is impossible. Simulations and theorycrafting can no doubt help you create a good set-up, but taking it as the gospel is just silly.

[klondikebear]

the good theorycrafters value being hit/exp capped, as that is what you do at icc gear level. i'm not taking it as gospel, as in my list i never mentioned those gloves as my non tier peice. but when you take a set of gear and its more dps than another, why would you not do that?

yes some items are better itemized which is why they say to try for the gloves, and the chest is not itemized well because it put's you over the cap and better to be under than over as you're wasting stats

[The Cat]

i'm not taking it as gospel

but when you take a set of gear and its more dps than another, why would you not do that?

[klondikebear]

not taking a set of gear that does more dps than another, is like not taking the cookie cutter spec because everyone does it. plus i never referred to a specific set of gear, i just said if one is more dps and people agree why not take it

[The Cat]

Who agrees it more dps. This is all theoretical. It is currently only possible to have 4 pieces of tier gear. In game testing has yet to be done. This argument seems pointless.

[Auroro]

Why in the world would you intentionally gimp your dps just to be lazy? Like i said before, if you have 80 more expertise than me, i have to gem 80. but you'll have 80 less arp or hit or crit and have to gem for that. this is why there is NO bis for a kitty, however you're trying to claim that their is.

btw, the best theorycrafter's say 4 peice + Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy.. but why listen to them, it's not like they know what they are doing or anything

lol.....

Less ARP you do not get less ARP with Sack set, less crit maybe

[pizzola]

being hit and exp capped is a must have once you are the very least crit capped and arp soft capped

Sure the values move up, but you still don't have to be exactly at both caps.

[getefix]

Sure the values move up, but you still don't have to be exactly at both caps.

You don't have to be at any of the caps. It just becomes your next highest priority. The only difference is it makes your rotation that much easier, although I can't imagine how much easier it can get from having 76% crit. The CPs will just be rolling in.

[klondikebear]

Sure the values move up, but you still don't have to be exactly at both caps.

let's put it this way.. when you are crit capped and arp soft or hard capped but not hit or exp capped, the values are as follows (approximately)

agi: 1.xx
str: 2.4x
haste: 2.3x
hit: 3.5x
exp: 3.5x
arp: 2.7x (unless hard capped)

edit: sure you don't have to get the caps, but why gem something that is going to give less dps?

[pizzola]

That depends on how far behind the cap you are. Like I said before, you don't have to be at both caps. Just near them.

No one is arguing that hit and exp isn't important. However it comes down to personal preference on how close to these caps you want to be.

[bujaberry]

let's put it this way.. when you are crit capped and arp soft or hard capped but not hit or exp capped, the values are as follows (approximately)

agi: 1.xx
str: 2.4x
haste: 2.3x
hit: 3.5x
exp: 3.5x
arp: 2.7x (unless hard capped)

edit: sure you don't have to get the caps, but why gem something that is going to give less dps?

the thing is, caps arent crucial, this has been proven ingame and in sims. obviously you wont be running with 0% hit, but if you're @ 7% and 24exp thats more than enough.

Being hit/exp capped is very very over-rated.

[arel00]

I'll say this for the last time, then I'll drop out of this kind of DPS discussion completely, because personally, after all this time I'm quite pissed people didn't get it.

Real raids, and mind it, this comes from a theorycrafter, are not simulations. You can't just say "that thing gives me X dps", it's not that simple.

The point of being AT the hit and expertise caps, and not below, is safety. You can rely on your attacks to land 100% of the time, which makes split second choices in such a complex rotation much smoother. You will never risk making a false call because, oh shit, RNG made me enter that 0.1% miss chance just now, of all times.

Said that, when you take gemming options into account, with an accuracy range of 10 rating, you can just close that gap and get a full, undoubted 100% chance to land your strikes. Worst case, you're going 9 rating over the cap. Oh, the tragedy.
It may be a "dps loss" than having those 9 points in ArP or w/e, but it CAN'T screw your rotation like being 9 rating UNDER the cap could.

Peace.

[The Cat]

I'll say this for the last time, then I'll drop out of this kind of DPS discussion completely, because personally, after all this time I'm quite pissed people didn't get it.

Real raids, and mind it, this comes from a theorycrafter, are not simulations. You can't just say "that thing givems me X dps", it's not that simple.

The point of being AT the hit and expertise caps, and not below, is safety. You can rely on your attacks to land 100% of the time, which makes split second choices in such a complex rotation much smoother. You will never risk making a false call because, oh shit, RNG made me enter that 0.1% miss chance just now, of all times.

Said that, when you take gemming options into account, with an accuracy range of 10 rating, you can just closer that gap and get a full, undoubted 100% chance to land your strikes. Worst case, you're going 9 rating over the cap. Oh, the tragedy.
It may be a "dps loss" than having those 9 points in ArP or w/e, but it CAN'T screw your rotation like being 9 rating UNDER the cap could.

Peace.

/highfive

[Paskgotsheal]

I'm not going to use the sac of wonders or the 277 gloves (they're almost exactly the same as tier ffs)

i'll keep you guys guessing on what i'm gonna use =)

[axxey]

Compare tier non haste items with haste/ArP options.

I'll likely be http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51866 or http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51923 for very end game.


I'm a fan of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51933 ahead of stupid icks sack for non ArP item slot.

There's a lot of take what one can get, i wont be seeing cryptmaker any time remotely soon with all our str users, hersir's greatspear is likely to be my weapon choice unless something drastic changes.

[Elunedra]

i am using the sack atm and i am fine of hit / exp (i only have 1/2 in primal precision)

but its temporatenly later on in game i want a better chest and ill have to get the rating else where ^^