Judgement question

[LDG]

I've looked all over for a definitive answer to this question to no avail.

If you have multiple paladins in a group, ie: pally tank, ret pally and holy pally...what are the correct judgements for everyone to be using and do they stack?

I read somewhere that ret and holy should throw light if with a prot and prot should use wisdom.

I am a holy pally and i always run with a prot pally. Is it wrong that currently both of us are throwing light? should we be doing it different?

Thanks in advance for help with this issue.

[BDF]

Ret should always be judging wisdom because chances are whatever you are attacking is the same target that all of the other mana using dpsers are attacking. There are exceptions of course.

Prot should always be doing light, unless there is no other pally in the raid or unless there fight isn't aoe heavy. In addition if you are prot and offtanking something use light for the extra heals for in a raid setting mana is never an issue for a pally tank.

Holy should judge light/wisdom depending on the situation and how many pallies are in the raid.

[diseous]

If you are like my guild and always have more than 3 ret pallys in a raid,

prot = whatever he feels like
ret = wis
holy/other ret= light

Since you have 2, up time considerations apply, both are equally important.

[Prentice]

Ideally you should have both Wisdom and Light on the boss as much as possible. Have the person with the highest uptime on Judgement judge Wisdom (ret paladin, or in lieu of that, prot), and the other (extra rets, prot, or holy) judge Light.

I disagree with this and feel it should be the exact opposite. My reasoning is that almost every fight in ICC thus far has tons of raid damage. Wisdom is a luxury when survival isn't an issue. With the benefits that holy pallys get from judging wisdom and it double dipping, they should be judging wisdom.

Assume that you have a ret, prot and holy in the raid. The prot should have the highest uptime on JoL. The person with the next highest uptime should be the ret. Let him judge wisdom. If you do not have a prot and ret, then the holy pally will be judging wisdom. Survival>Luxury every time.

The best example as to why Light>Wisdom is heroic Anub. No one gives a shit if you have mana when you're dead. You can apply the same mentality to Blood Queen, Blood Prince Council, Festergut, and Rotface. Tons of raid damage that can be significantly lessened by 100% uptime on JoL.

[Ronark]

We normally have our MT judge Light and myself judging Wisdom (since I need the mana for the more frequent DS procs >.>), and if we have a Holy Paladin they usually judge Light as well for the OTs, etc.

In most cases, this will mean that Light will have 100% uptime on the main target, unless it is a gimmick fight like Rotface, in which case myself or another paladin will judge Light. When it comes to priority, make sure Light is up first, then Wisdom.

[diseous]

Assume that you have a ret, prot and holy in the raid. The prot should have the highest uptime on JoL.

Never assume, cause it makes you look like a retard-in

Some prot pallys dont even judge.
Prot pallys need all the mana they can get, so they will be judging wis 90% of the time (if they are even judging)
Ret has a talent that "replenishes" their mana, while a prot does not. See http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31876 in the 7th tier of the ret tree allowing them to judge light and still get the replenishment effect.

No one gives a shit if you have mana when you're dead.

No one gives a shit if you're alive and cant do any damage


Again, both are of eaqual importance, one does not outweigh another. Prot = Wis, Ret = Light.

Or better yet, make a shift macro and judge both.

[Jahona]

I can see this as a problem in a 10 man more so than 25.
Prot pallies should in my opinion judge light.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20271

Holy should judge wisdom just for the slight edge in base mana talented.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53408

Ret paladins in most cases will judge wisdom or fill in for the missing buff.

[Eurytos]

Never assume, cause it makes you look like a retard-in

Some prot pallys dont even judge.
Prot pallys need all the mana they can get, so they will be judging wis 90% of the time (if they are even judging)
Ret has a talent that "replenishes" their mana, while a prot does not. See http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31876 in the 7th tier of the ret tree allowing them to judge light and still get the replenishment effect.

The prot pallies that you run with that don't judge are failures.

LOL, 969 rotation includes judgement.

[diseous]

The prot pallies that you run with that don't judge are failures.

LOL, 969 rotation includes judgement.

I am aware of the 969 rotation, and have macros for it. I read in the "prot paladin field manual" on the other site, that some prots dont judge. Not saying that I dont, or anyone that I run with doesnt. I am stating someone elses words.


inb4 I start getting flamed for something I never said. Always seems to happen to me when I voice my opinion in the paladin forums.

[Ronark]

Never assume, cause it makes you look like a retard-in

Some prot pallys dont even judge.
Prot pallys need all the mana they can get, so they will be judging wis 90% of the time (if they are even judging)
Ret has a talent that "replenishes" their mana, while a prot does not. See http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31876 in the 7th tier of the ret tree allowing them to judge light and still get the replenishment effect.

No one gives a shit if you're alive and cant do any damage


Again, both are of eaqual importance, one does not outweigh another. Prot = Wis, Ret = Light.

Or better yet, make a shift macro and judge both.

Enrage timers say hi.

prot Paladins also have talents like Spiritual Attunement, and (if you have a Resto druid in raid) they'll also be getting 2% (?) mana back every other HoT tick or so.

[Prentice]

Never assume, cause it makes you look like a retard-in

Some prot pallys dont even judge.
Prot pallys need all the mana they can get, so they will be judging wis 90% of the time (if they are even judging)
Ret has a talent that "replenishes" their mana, while a prot does not. See http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31876 in the 7th tier of the ret tree allowing them to judge light and still get the replenishment effect.

No one gives a shit if you're alive and cant do any damage


Again, both are of eaqual importance, one does not outweigh another. Prot = Wis, Ret = Light.

Or better yet, make a shift macro and judge both.

Don't post here anymore. Unless your raid is filled with complete idiots, the scenario I presented would be the standard. Every prot paladin is judging on cooldown. Its the core of their rotation. If they aren't (and I can't imagine why they wouldn't be) they should be losing their raid spot.

The judgement of a prot paladin provides numerous critical buffs and debuffs. They have to be doing it. It's their job. Assuming the prot pally isn't an idiot, his judgement provides the "Thunderclap" debuff, the 3% critical strike buff, and either of the wisdom or light buffs.

Trying to play the Judgements of the Wise card makes you look even more ignorant. Prot pallys have their own sources of endless mana in the form of Spiritual Attunement and Guarded by the Light.

EDIT: More evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. While the debuffs of Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom last long enough to apply both simultaneously, a paladin can only have one Judgement debuff on the target at any given time. GG.

[diseous]

Don't post here anymore. Unless your raid is filled with complete idiots, the scenario I presented would be the standard. Every prot paladin is judging on cooldown. Its the core of their rotation. If they aren't (and I can't imagine why they wouldn't be) they should be losing their raid spot.

The judgement of a prot paladin provides numerous critical buffs and debuffs. They have to be doing it. It's their job. Assuming the prot pally isn't an idiot, his judgement provides the "Thunderclap" debuff, the 3% critical strike buff, and either of the wisdom or light buffs.

Trying to play the Judgements of the Wise card makes you look even more ignorant. Prot pallys have their own sources of endless mana in the form of Spiritual Attunement and Guarded by the Light.

EDIT: More evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. While the debuffs of Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom last long enough to apply both simultaneously, a paladin can only have one Judgement debuff on the target at any given time. GG.

Quoting this person here jsut because I can, but this is directed towards all members talking on this topic. Please explain to me why it is more important for a Prot to judge Wisdom and a Ret to judge light? If that's the case, I've been doing it all wrong.

Perhaps I dont know what I am talking about, but I do know that I can judge light, then next rotation, judge wisdom. I never said anything about debuffing the target with more than one effect.

Jesus, I need to learn to keep my mouth shut around here, cause if I dont have green stars under my name, I get butt slammed.

[Prentice]

Talented? There is no talent. Every Paladin of the same race has the same base mana. Additionally, it's 2% base mana of the person that get's the proc. The thing is, Wisdom is a major source of regen for caster DPS, and because holy has no reason to reapply it more than once a minute, it can fall off, whereas both prot and ret will be doing it as part of their rotation. Holy doing light simply boosts their numbers.

I think he's referring to the same bug I am. Judgements of the Pure allows a holy pally to double dip on Judgement of Wisdom. They get back twice as much mana as they should be as I understand it.

[Prentice]

Quoting this person here jsut because I can, but this is directed towards all members talking on this topic. Please explain to me why it is more important for a Prot to judge Wisdom and a Ret to judge light? If that's the case, I've been doing it all wrong.

Reading is hard. You quoted me, but didn't even read my post. I suggested that, in a 3 paladin scenario, the prot judges light while the ret and holy judge wisdom. This is making the assumption that the prot pally is your MT or at least attacking the same target everyone else is.

[nwo]

I've looked all over for a definitive answer to this question to no avail.

If you have multiple paladins in a group, ie: pally tank, ret pally and holy pally...what are the correct judgements for everyone to be using and do they stack?

I read somewhere that ret and holy should throw light if with a prot and prot should use wisdom.

I am a holy pally and i always run with a prot pally. Is it wrong that currently both of us are throwing light? should we be doing it different?

Thanks in advance for help with this issue.

Judgements do not stack. It doesn't matter what judgements everyone uses, but wisdom should be up on the boss at all times so a holy pally should not be the only one assigned to it.

If there are only 2 pallies in your raid then have the prot pally judge wisdom and you should be doing light. As others have stated, light is not a major source of healing on most bosses, but wisdom is a good source of regen for casters and all other mana users such as ret pallies.

[diseous]

Reading is hard. You quoted me, but didn't even read my post. I suggested that, in a 3 paladin scenario, the prot judges light while the ret and holy judge wisdom. This is making the assumption that the prot pally is your MT or at least attacking the same target everyone else is.

Yes, apparently reading is hard for you

I am a holy pally and i always run with a prot pally. Is it wrong that currently both of us are throwing light? should we be doing it different?

Okay, lets talk about a completely different scenario than what the OP was asking a question about.

[Ronark]

Talented? There is no talent. Every Paladin of the same race has the same base mana. Additionally, it's 2% base mana of the person that get's the proc. The thing is, Wisdom is a major source of regen for caster DPS, and because holy has no reason to reapply it more than once a minute, it can fall off, whereas both prot and ret will be doing it as part of their rotation. Holy doing light simply boosts their numbers.

Holy should be judging every CD they can spare when Judgement is up for the chance to gain extra regen, assuming they have SoW active.

[Prentice]

Yes, apparently reading is hard for you

Okay, lets talk about a completely different scenario than what the OP was asking a question about.

Feel free to twist it anyway you want to. I replied to the OP's question already and thats when you piped in. The reply you are now quoting was a reply to your post, not the OP's.

[DaLeetPawner]

Does the +healing done talent affect Judgement of Light?

[Prentice]

Does the +healing done talent affect Judgement of Light?

It only affects healing received from JoL by those with the talent. It has no impact on the healing done to raid members that aren't spec'd into Divinity. Does that make sense?