The Ensidia Incident Explained

[jtstormrage]

I completely blame this whole incident on Blizzard.

Was there a bug? Yes.

Did Ensidia discover the bug? Yes.

Did they stop their attempt? No.

Why not? Because they have limited attempts and they are the top guild in the world trying for a world first.

If the fight had been tested on the PTR there would have been no fault. That is Blizzard's fault.

Does Blizzard really expect Ensidia, in the adrenalin of the moment, when they have been grinding the instance and have downed Putricide, Lana'thel and Sindragosa strictly and carefully to still have enough attempts on the Lich King on the first night the fight is available, to just wipe it and talk to a GM about a possible bug, when there is no guarantee how long the GM will take to get back to them, and when there is no guarantee they will have their attempt refunded? Pfff Not a chance.

Ensidia have a reputation to uphold (and it is a very good reputation that makes a lot of people jealous). They would never try a deliberate exploit. Were they reckless as to whether there was a bug or not? Clearly they were. But what do you expect? They were trying for a World First!

[vesseblah]

While I agree that it's difficult to do testing on everything to prevent bugs, encounters that they know will be highly scrutinized when the elite guilds defeat them should have more testing done to them than they currently do obviously. This isn't the first case of such an encounter having a serious bug.

Kael and Vashj had serious bugs that prevented killing those bosses. C'thun had bug/tuning issue that made it unkillable for 4 months before hotfix. Those are serious problems. Saronite Bomb is a minor detail that can be exploited by "clever use of game mechanics". Quality of Blizzard's work has gone up significantly from vanilla or TBC.

What comes to the banning is that Blizz had to do it, or they would be using double standards. They're having whole lot stricter anti-cheat policy now than ever before, and exploiting even small bugs gives players 72h bans, just like in this case.

[Kidoeng7]

Well Blizz could have give Ensidia one more shot @ the LK now that the "bug" is fixed and if they still manage to down well they deserve the World First Kill, but banning them for something that wasnt tested if correctly by blizz even if they did intentionally or not seems a bit lame to me.

Anyway this is just normal mode so the real deal will be the Heroic version thats something!

[sicness]

Kael and Vashj had serious bugs that prevented killing those bosses. C'thun had bug/tuning issue that made it unkillable for 4 months before hotfix. Those are serious problems. Saronite Bomb is a minor detail that can be exploited by "clever use of game mechanics". Quality of Blizzard's work has gone up significantly from vanilla or TBC.

What comes to the banning is that Blizz had to do it, or they would be using double standards. They're having whole lot stricter anti-cheat policy now than ever before, and exploiting even small bugs gives players 72h bans, just like in this case.

What about Ulduar? Ensidia had two weeks ahead of anyone else to attempt Algalon but couldn't because the encounter was bugged keeping them in combat. Hodir hard mode, under-tuned then over-tuned to the point where an exploit was the only possible way to complete the encounter.

More importantly though is the Algalon encounter, and while this may be a small bug for the Lich King encounter, that's two encounters in the expansion that has had high expectations by everyone interested only to be somewhat let down with bugs. Wouldn't that make you think that they need to work on how they do their own internal testing. Granted again that the Algalon bug was much more detrimental to the encounter, it's still something you have to consider when looking at these things.

I'll admit I am happy with these mysterious encounters that players can't try on the PTR, but they obviously need to do more testing when something as simple as a standard dps rotation can effect an encounter this drastically.

[killapk4]

During the LK fight we noticed something was different then the other 3 tries. No we did not power level engineering for the fight, we first noticed something was wrong right then and there. I was too focused on my role to notice what was happening, in retrospect, it happened so fast, I simply heard two or three people saying in vent "Whoa, did you see that?" followed by our raid leader stating "Whatever you did just now, do it again next phase." This happened in fraps as well as in two or three raid warnings. This is why the fraps will never be released unless some serious editing and music background is added, one member stated we should just voice over again and reenact the whole fight without the mentioning of this glitch and edit the raid warning frame by frame. He was told not to worry about it. Let me assure you this mentality is only present in the corrupt few found in most large and elite organizations.

So what im gathering from all this is..
A Few of the raid members noticed what was happening,
the raid leader decided to repeat what had happened (to use it in their favour)
and it is all recorded... Yet Ensidia doesn't want to ever release the video, because it contains the main evidence of them exploiting the glitch on purpose, they knowingly knew that if they released the video - unedited, someone would notice what they did and it would result in them getting banned anyway.
So from that perspective, i say Well Done Ensidia for getting a Well Deserved ban. You tried to hide the evidence, yet Blizzard took action and called you out.

[Deleted]

Does Blizzard really expect Ensidia, in the adrenalin of the moment, when they have been grinding the instance and have downed Putricide, Lana'thel and Sindragosa strictly and carefully to still have enough attempts on the Lich King on the first night the fight is available, to just wipe it and talk to a GM about a possible bug, when there is no guarantee how long the GM will take to get back to them, and when there is no guarantee they will have their attempt refunded? Pfff Not a chance.

Key points. No one would have stopped playing. And no one would sacrifice one of the limited tries to wipe intentionally there, because Blizzard does not give 'em back. (Example: 90% of the time we have serious lags on Thursday when fighting the Blood Queen, but you never know until you lose your first try to 5-second-lags. GMs do not refund this try despite the fact that ist is 100% Blizzards "fault". So would I intentionally throw one of the maway? Hell no!)

But you can blame Ensidia for not writing a ticket just after the first bugged try (and then going on). To ban them for three days is still ridiculous though. If you watch them and you know what the bug-use is, tell them, reset the tries and they kill it without using the bombs ---> win-win. They are (great!) customers after all...

What comes to the banning is that Blizz had to do it, or they would be using double standards.

Hu? Really? Stars got a world first on Anub'arak heroic by exploiting the whole fight long with Holy Wrath on the Nerubian Burrowers. But I think it was okay (and would've been alright in this case with Ensidia) because they could not know for sure whether it was considered bug-using if you stunned the adds the whole time (DR could've been disabled intentionally). Exodus in contrast developed a whole strategy around a huge bug in the YS+0 fight - and denied for days that they did use any bug...

[raffie]

Lol all of u saying u would stop while fighting for Lich King world first u should stop gaming and go be an irl priest in a church. After all its a glitch and not their fault, the thing is all those who call Ensidia cheaters re just jealous, and u ppl refer to the game and glitches like something u really need in ur life, its just a game get over it, and I see no reason why anyone from Ensidia should feel bad, the decision by blizz to ban them is really silly and just makes them look bad. Im sure alot of people would do what Ensidia did and those who think otherwise re either not serious raiders or re just jealous. After all its Lich King world first.

[Azerox]

Blizzard FAILED by banning them.

Im sure alot of ppl are like ... WTF are u doing now?

[vesseblah]

I'll admit I am happy with these mysterious encounters that players can't try on the PTR, but they obviously need to do more testing when something as simple as a standard dps rotation can effect an encounter this drastically.

There's 2 very important things to keep in mind regarding blizzard's testing of stuff when doing all kinds of assumptions.

GC said few months back that their internal QC team is nowhere near the level of world's top guilds, and is not skilled enough to do all the hardmodes for meta achievements of Ulduar which explains certain tuning issues. Also whole engineering profession has been bashed for years being complete shit.

Putting these two things together, you can be sure blizzard's qc team does not reroll to engineering as soon as EJ forums say it gives 0.1% dps buff, just like 99.99% of all WoW guilds will not do. It's very easy to miss bugs like this.

[Deleted]

If Ensidia wasn't so fast denounce Exodus on their Yogg+0 exploit kill, they would still have moral ground to contest this ban.

Just saying.

[zorg]

The fact still remains IF previous speculations surrounding Ensidia and "clever use of game mechanics borderlining exploits" hadnt happened no1 would care abou this right now....

simply they are victims of thier own actions...
maybe it wasnt warrented but they did after all bring it on themselves over time.

and i totally agree with tauror

[Narveid]

Anyone who goes saying "This! Is why they deserve a ban!" needs to check themself up. When you fight for a World First, I doubt you think "Oh! There might be something wrong in here, lets just STOP and wait for Blizz to fix it!". The whole ban is a joke towards honest players who tries to enjoy the game, thats basically it.

[chipmonk]

Being flag bearers for wow raiding, ensidia have a standard of behaviour and fair play to uphold as well as a lot of people looking at their players as role models.

They knew what was going on, they are not silly people and they have let themselves and people that look up to them down.

[sicness]

There's 2 very important things to keep in mind regarding blizzard's testing of stuff when doing all kinds of assumptions.

GC said few months back that their internal QC team is nowhere near the level of world's top guilds, and is not skilled enough to do all the hardmodes for meta achievements of Ulduar which explains certain tuning issues. Also whole engineering profession has been bashed for years being complete shit.

Putting these two things together, you can be sure blizzard's qc team does not reroll to engineering as soon as EJ forums say it gives 0.1% dps buff, just like 99.99% of all WoW guilds will not do. It's very easy to miss bugs like this.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that it's easy to overlook bugs like these, but perhaps as your quote of GC states they need to update their QC team to someone who can really test these encounters the way they will be when guilds plow through them for world firsts. I mean when your own QC team can't complete encounters designed by your company then they need to be replaced as it's irresponsible to release a product that's not fully tested. By that I mean if they can't test hard modes on their own and only rely upon the elite guilds for feedback then something is seriously wrong.

I'm not to the point of arguing where this one bug on the Lich King is making them look bad, but you'd expect from past experience that such an encounter would be tested thoroughly by their QC team due to the high expectations that everyone who's even played this expansion has for this encounter.

Lastly, if you're using the elite guilds for PTR testing, why wouldn't you use their gear/specs/raid comp as an example to test the encounters you don't want them seeing? That right there seems like simple logic to me. If you're going to test something without putting it on the PTR then put it through the type of testing the elite guilds would put it through themselves, anything less and you can see what the outcome is. It's not like this is really that hard to figure out. So it's either a lack of effort or simply them feeling satisfied relying upon these guilds to do it during their limited encounter attempts and seeing what happens.

[Deleted]

In my opinion the ban was deserved. IF they noticed that the encounter was bugged they shouldnt have get too excited about that kill and post it as World first. (i prolly would have done samething) but its completely pointless to then start cry after the ban that they didnt know what they did wrong.

AND FOR LOVE OF GOD, its so damn stupid to flame them etc etc. Leave them alone. this wont make them worse humans.. And i think its really really stupid to flame them INGAME forcing them to name change & change realm just to enjoy the game again and idle in Dalaran if you like that.

So kids & other people, Let them be. They exploited, they got their kill nulled and achievement taken. So what. We got prolly Legit World First kill now (waiting for vid) so enjoy about that. End of story.

Oh btw.. Helvetin hienoa paragon!

[Auria]

I completely blame this whole incident on Blizzard.

Was there a bug? Yes.

Did Ensidia discover the bug? Yes.

Did they stop their attempt? No.

Why not? Because they have limited attempts and they are the top guild in the world trying for a world first.

If the fight had been tested on the PTR there would have been no fault. That is Blizzard's fault.

Does Blizzard really expect Ensidia, in the adrenalin of the moment, when they have been grinding the instance and have downed Putricide, Lana'thel and Sindragosa strictly and carefully to still have enough attempts on the Lich King on the first night the fight is available, to just wipe it and talk to a GM about a possible bug, when there is no guarantee how long the GM will take to get back to them, and when there is no guarantee they will have their attempt refunded? Pfff Not a chance.

Ensidia have a reputation to uphold (and it is a very good reputation that makes a lot of people jealous). They would never try a deliberate exploit. Were they reckless as to whether there was a bug or not? Clearly they were. But what do you expect? They were trying for a World First!

This guy is completly RIGHT...altho i dont like ensidia but they had a worlds first...
its not deliberate. they are smart and used something that could have helped them defeat the encouter. And they got banned.
Same as the Gnome Mage in Naxx (25) spellstealing the bone armor from the Deathknight Cavaliers and use incanters absorbtion to have 143K spellpower and a Armor that absorbs 1.25M incomming dmg.
He used something that is There..used it.... and then got banned..

It's something like

You get a coin to play in the Casino, (from the Casino)
You use the coin to gain lots of money
and ur banned from the Casino because it WAS NOT intended you GETTING so much money.

You get something
Use it
Should be profit.
but ends in YOU BEING the bad man/women..

Blizz isnt the bad monster in this....but Blizzard should either SHED some light OR....
extend there Testing periods and test everything that could be possible.
i know it takes time.
make some time then.

[Deleted]

Anyone who goes saying "This! Is why they deserve a ban!" needs to check themself up. When you fight for a World First, I doubt you think "Oh! There might be something wrong in here, lets just STOP and wait for Blizz to fix it!". The whole ban is a joke towards honest players who tries to enjoy the game, thats basically it.

Using this post to add a point to my previous post.

If some other guild managed to kill the Lich King before Ensidia with "unintensional" use of the bug, Ensidia would be crying wolf the next day. Heck, they did it before.

If they wanted to be the moral central of raiding one time (Exodus exploit), they have to be it all the time. Hypocrisy doesn't make anyone looking good.

[vesseblah]

Lastly, if you're using the elite guilds for PTR testing, why wouldn't you use their gear/specs/raid comp as an example to test the encounters you don't want them seeing? That right there seems like simple logic to me. If you're going to test something without putting it on the PTR then put it through the type of testing the elite guilds would put it through themselves, anything less and you can see what the outcome is. It's not like this is really that hard to figure out. So it's either a lack of effort or simply them feeling satisfied relying upon these guilds to do it during their limited encounter attempts and seeing what happens.

This is very true, and I have no doubt they are watching very closely what professions/gems/enchants/glyphs high end raiders have, but even with all the theorycraft available you cant be as good player as somebody else while practically playing his toon.

[killzwitch]

Whilst this is all well and good, I'm sure you are sorry, but at the end of the day who gives a flying ****. Your actions don't impact me or anyone outside of the tiny minority of players aiming for WFs both the wow community and ensidia themselves have made a big hoo har about this. Anybody that cares about enough about this to flame you is blates a proper loser and so their opinions can be safely ignored, don't waste your money changing server.

[Hotbottoms]

I simply heard two or three people saying in vent "Whoa, did you see that?" followed by our raid leader stating "Whatever you did just now, do it again next phase."

Yes, well, what else can he say? "Whatever you did, don't do it again. Less DPS and healing and worse tanking, please"?

However, I don't believe for a second that Ensidia doesn't have a video about their "world first", whether this post by Anonymous is real or not.