Ensidia or Paragon

[Beetlejuice]

Who killed him first is a simple fact. Like others already pointed out it was ensidia. So if your question was indeed meant literally then it was a very easy one to answer which you could have looked up on the main page.

If you meant who defeated the encounter first and deserves credit for it, it (not quite as obviously but still kinda) was Paragon. Not only did they defeat the whole encounter and not just parts of it but they also did this on first try. Which imho is much more worth than who did it first anyway. Especially on non hard encounters the "who killed first credit" usually goes to the semi competent guild who logs in first. So not really a measure of skill.

About the ensidia exploit. They used their normal rotations and that happened to bug the encounter without really being able to tell why. With having limited tries on that no one with a sane mind would have canceled the encounter, thus wasting valuable tries and started debugging blizzards game like some demanded of them. But what they should have done is report that bug (since at least that something irregular was going on was obvious). So they made a mistake. But imho Blizzard made two. First not finding that bug before and second the choice of punishment. They should have reset the encounter and taken the loot/achievement, thus giving them a second shot at the unbugged version. And maybe on top of that the 72 ban for not reporting the bug.

I am all for a hard line against exploiters. But it is not like they knowingly and actively exploited the encounter like the yogg+0 incident mentioned before. And the impact on this punishment is quite severe. It keeps one of the top guilds from participating on the really important 25hc kill run. So i think Blizzard went over the top here. Delaying 25hc progression on one of the top guilds for 1 week is a stupid move to punish not reporting a bug. So if ensidia now happens to kill lichking25 hc within 1 week after first kill we will have wild discussions about who deserved credit again .

[Deleted]

First kill without making the kill easier = the first kill.
In this case, Ensidia knew that it would come to this.
Ensidia had a lot of time to kill the lich king, and I'm sure they could kill it without that bug.
So why did they use the bug? In my opinion they lost the "real first kill" because of this.

Ekyu from Ensidia:
"Now some will say that seeing this bug we should have stopped and wait for an hotfix before proceeding for a kill.
But would anyone actually have done that really ? Not only would you waste tries in the meantime,
but what if another guild killed it before you. We are talking about a race against other people there after all."

[Rewiag]

oh so,

ensidia got banned and they used a bug to down him.
paragon made it the legal way and 20/20.

and you still favor failsidia...

next time i participate in a 100m sprint i will just shot the others in leg and win the race. i have no doubt everyone will agree that im the winner since i cut the strip first...

[bloodkin]

ensidia got what the deserved, konwingly or not, they exploited the fight, and if anny other guild got the ban, nobody would hear about it. Ensidia has a reputation to exploit fights (yogg annyone ?)

[brirrspliff]

ensidia (we are best) sucks. kungen sucks. paragon owns.

[Revitalize]

ensidia got what the deserved, konwingly or not, they exploited the fight, and if anny other guild got the ban, nobody would hear about it. Ensidia has a reputation to exploit fights (yogg annyone ?)

You're an idiot.

That was fucking Exodus...

[Exera]

Ensidia. Even tho it bugged and made it easyer, such has happened to many before a hard fight bugs out and makes it a tank and spank.

Because Blizzard cba to test their fucking shit it shouldn't be going out on a guild. blizzard has the fault behind this, ensidia got the first kil what ever or not achi and loot got removed

"Blizzard cant be arsed to test their fucking shit wah wah wah wah wah"

You do realize there was one bug on this encounter, a bug caused by the effect of ONE item, it's not that easy to spot bugs like this one without actually stumbling across it. Thats what happens when you dont want content on the PTR if gets buggier because there is simply no way to actually test every single possibility.

/sarcasm Yeah Blizzards fault entirely. /sarcasm off

[LeperHerring]

But what they should have done is report that bug (since at least that something irregular was going on was obvious). So they made a mistake.

You know GMs are always watching the first attempts at new bosses, right? They've even fixed stuff between world first attempts after noticing that something's bugged. There's no point in ticketing it and having the ticket go back at the queue when Blizzard is already aware of everything that's going on in the fight.

[Kilari]

oh so,

ensidia got banned and they used a bug to down him.
paragon made it the legal way and 20/20.

and you still favor failsidia...

next time i participate in a 100m sprint i will just shot the others in leg and win the race. i have no doubt everyone will agree that im the winner since i cut the strip first...

That 100m Sprint race doesn't really work as an argument... think instead of it as a 100m sprint/hedge and you can't see your opponents...

u self are running down the lane and suddenly all the hedges dissappear... do u stop and let the others win the race or do you think..."hmm this is suppose to be a fair sprint, so probably all the others got the same thing and we're still playing on equal terms..." Cause it's a bigger risk that a encounter is bugged for all of them then just for one guild...

[Fenixdown]

Where's the option for "it's normal mode and it's not important to either guild, so why should it be to you"?

[LeperHerring]

"Blizzard cant be arsed to test their fucking shit wah wah wah wah wah"

You do realize there was one bug on this encounter, a bug caused by the effect of ONE item, it's not that easy to spot bugs like this one without actually stumbling across it. Thats what happens when you dont want content on the PTR if gets buggier because there is simply no way to actually test every single possibility.

You do realize that any competent rogue will be using that ONE item on world first attempts? It just shows that Blizzard doesn't have an internal test raid that has a competent rogue in it.

[Xyllo]

For me it will be ensidia, they always were and will be the best in wow probobly, and the thing that blizz didnt thought about "saronite bombs" while testing is not ensidia's fault.

[haaku]

summary of this thread:

fanboys: trying to argue to defend ensidia.

haters: we see them hating

[Kilari]

You do realize that any competent rogue will be using that ONE item on world first attempts? It just shows that Blizzard doesn't have an internal test raid that has a competent rogue in it.

'

Indeed... paragon would probably have bugged the encounter too if it wasen't known what was bugging it.

[Deleted]

Well, Ensidia killed him first and encountered the bug, they got banned and the bug hotfixed, then paragon killed him. Thats it.

[Bergenia]

You do realize there was one bug on this encounter, a bug caused by the effect of ONE item, it's not that easy to spot bugs like this one without actually stumbling across it.

Exactly.

And Ensidia still got banned for it. It's not like they hacked the servers and planted the bug, Blizzard failed big on this one.

[Camie]

Who cares it's normal mode....
And first doesn't mean anything on those, hundreds of guilds will kill him on the same lockout, it is just that they were the first ones to finish their alt raids / R10 and to have a good roster.
Seriously the drama should be on how easy the fight actually is, LK killed in 2 days...

[Fosorrow]

The way I see it, Ensidia got the first "World First 25 man Lich King Kill" there's really no arguing that. The Lich King died in their raid ID first. HOWEVER, Paragon were the first to beat the encounter.

Who got the world first kill (in 25s)? Ensidia.

Who were the first to beat the encounter (in 25s)? Paragon.

Based on the wording of the questions, I had to vote for Ensidia.

[Rewiag]

That 100m Sprint race doesn't really work as an argument... think instead of it as a 100m sprint/hedge and you can't see your opponents...

u self are running down the lane and suddenly all the hedges dissappear... do u stop and let the others win the race or do you think..."hmm this is suppose to be a fair sprint, so probably all the others got the same thing and we're still playing on equal terms..." Cause it's a bigger risk that a encounter is bugged for all of them then just for one guild...

ok so lets jump to the end: you cut the strip like 10 seconds earlier than others. everyone is happy and such. than the Judge says: wait a minute. there is something wrong, let me check it. oh i got it, you had no hedges on your lane. i make your win invalid. would anyone argue about this? no. only difference is that you can remake that race, but not this one.

[Horrid Crow]

Paragon.
I find it unfair for Ensidia but no matter how you look at it, they got an easier bossfight and that wasn't intended.

I'm also a bit biased towards Paragon because they're on my server, lol.