Upcoming Wintergrasp Changes

[Finelle]

This is yet another awful epic fail by a dev team that is so out of step with the precepts of reality and basic math that I wonder on a daily basis how this game got of the ground.

So, if the horde win one time and then the ally 7, the ally get closer to a boost? Are you fucking shitting me?!?!?! Why on Gods green earth would you ever believe that the one time horde won, was NOT due to the internal tug-of-war? Awful. If a side is x>y down, then the imbalance causing objectives and kills-needed to become easier or auto-supplied, and the internal tug-of-war should NOT BUDGE AT ALL til the losers have won as many in a row as the winners in the previous winning spree. How can you NOT see this?

Basic math for the win.

What the hell are you talking about? If the Horde wins once, and then the Alliance wins seven times, the HORDE get increasing bonuses, not the Alliance. The tug of war attempts to reach a balance point giving just enough for the battle to be decided closely. Your system where the winner's streak is copied has way too much lag time to adjust bonuses such that battles are closely decided.

We should be glad you're not the devs. You've completely missed the point of the tug of war system.

[Hellevad]

blizzard wants to do it big :P.

why not 0-7 and increase advantage by 1 point each double win/loose?

One reason could be that with a few extra digits in there they have a lot more room to tweak the numbers later on.
For example:
"Ok. This system didn't equalize things to a degree we are happy with. Let's say a winning streak under the influence of "Ze Advantage" only brings you 50 closer to neutral, and see how this works out..."

Two weeks later after ballance has shifted completely:
"Hmm... No - 50 is not enough. how about 75 - first bonus gone after two nods, and second bonus gone right after the third..."

You know... Tweaking.. Yes. It could be done with decimals, but it is a lot tidier to do without those when programming this sort of thing.

[Aluana]

One reason could be that with a few extra digits in there they have a lot more room to tweak the numbers later on.
For example:
"Ok. This system didn't equalize things to a degree we are happy with. Let's say a winning streak under the influence of "Ze Advantage" only brings you 50 closer to neutral, and see how this works out..."

Two weeks later after ballance has shifted completely:
"Hmm... No - 50 is not enough. how about 75 - first bonus gone after two nods, and second bonus gone right after the third..."

You know... Tweaking.. Yes. It could be done with decimals, but it is a lot tidier to do without those when programming this sort of thing.

you know, if you read through the thread more you'd have seen there were at least 5 other posts saying this...

[Vanthica]

Tenacity is the problem, we already had tons of ppl faction change to ally when we started to loose afew attacks. Now winning a defense is out of the question and we win half the attacks. Why? Bcuz we always have 2-3 tenacity, meaning we're out numbered. And tbh most ppl just gave up trying

2-3 isn't that bad, on my realm, we're usually at 15 to 20, most the time.

[Laan]

For those of you who think the Wintergrasp changes do anything..... you're dumb.

These are already on Live and have been for some time, and they dont help because hey! if you dont have a full team to fill up the siege engines you all can build... AND have enough people to defend them.... you're going to lose anyways.

At the end of the day, tenacity needs to effect siege vehicles more(speed, dmg, health)..... needs to reduce stun/silence duration. And needs to provide -dmg taken while you have the buff. (all in moderation and stacking)

I mean, i can have this lovely tenacity buff that lets me rip people apart 1 on 1..... but when theres 4 people attacking me stunning and silencing me.... it doesn't equal out.

[tenzing21]

If the Horde wins once, and then the Alliance wins seven times, the HORDE get increasing bonuses, not the Alliance.

OK, sorry forgot to phrase it as "If the Horde wins once, and then the Alliance wins seven times, then the horde wins once, the ally get closer to a bonus." The point of my post was that if the horde are at 700 tug of war, then go and win, the ally actually get closer to a bonus. Which makes no sense. If the Horde need 700 bonus pts to win, maybe the whole damn system is flawed and the last thing we need is letting the historical WG hegemony get closer to retaining or re-acquiring the WG blessing.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Abron]

On a server where the faction transfer drastically altered the balance in PvP zones like WG this simply will not help.

The problem is with tenacity and its lackluster to laughably ineffectual benefit.

Whatever increase obtained due to any number of stacks of tenacity is blown away by the sheer overwhelming amount of crowd control the opposing faction can inflict and subsequently stun lock an opponent from 100-0%.

Tenacity also does not transfer all its effects to vehicles (although it certainly feels like it doesn’t apply ANY transferable effects to vehicles at all). Neither does resilience, or ilvl. I’ve been in battles where my vehicle can be destroyed in a number of seconds by a single opponent and in many cases the enemy get out of their guns, along the keep and towers, to simply melee/range my vehicles to death.

Also tenacity does not benefit a lesser number of players from capturing a shop from a larger number of opponents. So a group with tenacity cannot hold control of a shop even if they tear through an overwhelming number of opponents.

The only solutions I can see are to:

A) Limit the number of players to an equal amount on both sides, thereby eliminating the need for tenacity (and effectively turning the zone into a BG with a 2 hour queue).

B) Buff tenacity in the following ways:

1) Increase its effectiveness to 50-100% per stack including either increased diminishing returns or a resistance percentage to crowd control effects/abilities.

2) Allow tenacity to transfer its full effects to vehicles, as well as the aforementioned resilience and ilvl stats.

3) Allow tenacity to increase the speed at which a shop can be captured.

[sleepyb]

blizzard wants to do it big :P.

why not 0-7 and increase advantage by 1 point each double win/loose?

Probably because it makes it trivial to add in additional conditions that change the scale by smaller increments.

Like how most states number interstate exits by miles, and then by the alphabet (101a, 101b, etc.) if there are multiple exits within the same mile. Compare that to the New Jersey Turnpike, where they just numbered the exits 1-7 originally. Now they've added a dozen other exits between 1 and 7, and it's a complete nonsensical mess, because they had to keep exits 1-7 numbered the same to keep maps and directions accurate.

*Oops, about twenty people responded before me. I still like my interstate analogy though so I'll leave it

[sollcat06]

how about scrap the whole pvp aspect and let ally and horde take turns in 2 hr blocks. Either way, one faction is always going to have decent access to it and its rewards.
The general consensus is that on a lot of imbalanced servers its horde that are dominating. I'm on Dreadmaul Oceanic and this week I have been on every day for several hours and have lost every single battle to the point where horde have even been ganking our GY- honestly i think i have seen one wall come down that's about it.
Even in stronger times, Alliance never really defended it well. Sure there are a lot of factors like people not bothering etc etc but it seems like a hell of a lot more people are Horde in general and it is really ruining the experience of VOA.

[gabbaell]

I'd prefer to see them actually putting more effort into balancing servers in the first place so this kind of thing isn't needed. Seriously, why allow faction changes and new players on a faction that already massively outnumbers the other? Also, if they can do things like this for WG, why can't they come up with something for the unbalanced battlegroups that they've said they can't do anything to make more balanced. Having to pay for a server transfer if you don't want to keep losing over 80% of battlegrounds is ridiculous.

[Rust in Peace]

Having played both factions on the same server I can safely say that tenacity does bug out and granted me instant top ranking (Lt.) every time while playing alliance. As horde I rarely had tenacity and was never instantly promoted like that.

[Arthas]

hmmm...