BoP + Saurfang

[cruxxy]

Do BoPs prevent runic power gains to Saurfang? I know absorbed damage still gives him runic power; wondering about prevented damage.

[Ryme]

I'm not entirely sure. I know that absorbed damage used to prevent runic power gain, which is what made disc priests so invaluable to the raid. I know Blizzard changed this as they didn't like how raids stacked holy paladins and disc priests for the fight. Unsure on what that change was though.

[Taisen]

Hand of Protection does in fact prevent the gain of runic power. Hand of protection actually removes Blood Boil debuff on Saurfang.

[Deathflid]

Just DI the person who gets the first mark, res the pally who DI'd and continue to need 1 healer for another 3 mins

[Dethaele]

We tested the DI the first mark method in Heroic mode and he gained runic power through the DI as far as we could tell, not sure if it works in normal mode, but normal mode is a joke.

As for BoPs, I can confirm that bopping a blood boil victim will get rid of the blood boil and cause him to gain no runic power from the damage it deals (since it deals no damage at all).

Bopping anyone with a mark will stop damage from that mark, but will not prevent him from gaining runic power (at least not in heroic anyways).

[Firecrest]

Just DI the person who gets the first mark, res the pally who DI'd and continue to need 1 healer for another 3 mins

This tactic isn't particularly viable on NM or HM. In normal, you should only be getting 2 marks at most and should have no trouble at all keeping them up. In hard you will need all the dps you can get, so arbitrarily removing one of your dps (or worse, a healer) from the fight hurts much more than it helps.

[Deathflid]

i've not had chance to play wince HM's were released, FU BT....

[Swampmoose]

We tested the DI the first mark method in Heroic mode and he gained runic power through the DI as far as we could tell, not sure if it works in normal mode, but normal mode is a joke.

As for BoPs, I can confirm that bopping a blood boil victim will get rid of the blood boil and cause him to gain no runic power from the damage it deals (since it deals no damage at all).

Bopping anyone with a mark will stop damage from that mark, but will not prevent him from gaining runic power (at least not in heroic anyways).

Bop in heroic mode still removes the blood boil, so does he just generate all of his runic power on the initial application of that blood boil? I thought he generated the Runic Power as the damage was dealt therefore removing the boil would reduce RP.

[Riek]

Bop in heroic mode still removes the blood boil, so does he just generate all of his runic power on the initial application of that blood boil? I thought he generated the Runic Power as the damage was dealt therefore removing the boil would reduce RP.

it does

[Swampmoose]

it does

I'm retarded, he said mark, and I read "Boil."

[Paladin885]

Just DI the person who gets the first mark, res the pally who DI'd and continue to need 1 healer for another 3 mins

or you can beacon the target and continue to heal the tank till he dies saving a druid from rezzing your failness.

[Varius]

Does the DI remove the mark or something? doesnt seem like it should, but if it does in heroic it would be very nice, because he can gain RP very fast. And yes Immune Effects do remove Boil so At the start of the fight BoPs and iceblocks can really stretch that first mark potentially preventing you from getting too many marks before killing him.

[Deleted]

Bopping targets to remove blood boil (and thus delaying runic power gain) seems to be an essential part of beating Saurfang on heroic mode, unless you have very disgusting raid dps (over 170-175k).

We had a 2%, 5% and 3% wipe tonight, and for our guild atm, it is just so insanely tight.

We have 5 paladins assigned to each BoP off early Bloods to delay the first mark. They can also use bubble themselves. We also have 3 who can Iceblock for the same effect.

Doing this we get the first mark when saurfang is at 60-70% if we get lucky with RNG. If we don't use BoP at all, we seem to get the first mark at 79-85% which just makes it almost impossible to down him before the 7th mark is cast.

To other guilds who have already downed him: Do you have to "abuse" bops and immunities as well to kill him? or is your raid dps just so much higher than ours that you can actually kill him regardless? We are quite curious cause we have been banging our heads against mr Saurfangs nuts for 4 nights in a row now.

EDIT:

And no, DI does not remove the mark. It does however stop the damage on the Marked person, so we have been using it to "save" the 7th mark because our healers can only keep up 6 marks at best. DI is used as a backup plan, because taking 2 people completely out of the fight (only 1 if you get a soulstone) can cause you to fail on the DPS requirements before someone else inevitably dies. And ofc you cant afford to DI a healer.

[Téuntjûh]

Does the DI remove the mark or something? doesnt seem like it should, but if it does in heroic it would be very nice, because he can gain RP very fast. And yes Immune Effects do remove Boil so At the start of the fight BoPs and iceblocks can really stretch that first mark potentially preventing you from getting too many marks before killing him.

DI doesnt remove the mark. It only makes sure the person with the mark won't get any damage for the next 3 minutes and won't die. Less healing for the healers needed and you can make sure the person with the mark don't die.. (for 3 mins)

[enbee]

rotating bops on your marks at the end of the fight in HM is a nice thing to use, once you get that 1 extra mark that your healers can't handle anymore, and gives you a kill.

bop is amazing, so amazing everyone still calls it bop as hop sounds ridiculous!

[Varius]

No, we only did 170k dps for our kill, you just have to be very clean with tank switches, adds, and healing. BoPs at the start of the fight then again 3 minutes later helps stave off that 7th Mark till just about the win. But yes the end of that fight is a real RNG bitch, if you get 1 person with mark and boil at the same time with 50+ blood power on boss it all ticks VERY hard so you may want to save your 2nd set and/or your 2 extra bops for 10% so you can relieve the healer's stress for 10 seconds.

[Swampmoose]

Bopping targets to remove blood boil (and thus delaying runic power gain) seems to be an essential part of beating Saurfang on heroic mode, unless you have very disgusting raid dps (over 170-175k).

We had a 2%, 5% and 3% wipe tonight, and for our guild atm, it is just so insanely tight.

We have 5 paladins assigned to each BoP off early Bloods to delay the first mark. They can also use bubble themselves. We also have 3 who can Iceblock for the same effect.

Doing this we get the first mark when saurfang is at 60-70% if we get lucky with RNG. If we don't use BoP at all, we seem to get the first mark at 79-85% which just makes it almost impossible to down him before the 7th mark is cast.

To other guilds who have already downed him: Do you have to "abuse" bops and immunities as well to kill him? or is your raid dps just so much higher than ours that you can actually kill him regardless? We are quite curious cause we have been banging our heads against mr Saurfangs nuts for 4 nights in a row now.

EDIT:

And no, DI does not remove the mark. It does however stop the damage on the Marked person, so we have been using it to "save" the 7th mark because our healers can only keep up 6 marks at best. DI is used as a backup plan, because taking 2 people completely out of the fight (only 1 if you get a soulstone) can cause you to fail on the DPS requirements before someone else inevitably dies. And ofc you cant afford to DI a healer.

We killed it last night with I think only 150k raid dps. We bop most of the initial Blood Boils to save some Runic Power generation. We then save any BoP after that for anyone who gets mark and boil sub 30%. Our dps was pretty crappy on our kill and so was our ability to control Runic Power. First mark went out around 77% I believe. The attempt before that was about 68% I think on the first mark. I think we might have even got an 8th mark.

Unless you are pushing the huge raid dps numbers, the fight is nothing but Blood Boil RNG and the ability to control at least some of the damage they cause. Thankfully our Good Luck Ele shaman was able to log on for the last attempt. I don't have enough fingers on 2 hands to count how many times we've brought in this one person in and 1 shot a progression boss that very next attempt with them in the raid.

[Jarob22]

Just DI the person who gets the first mark, res the pally who DI'd and continue to need 1 healer for another 3 mins

Or don't DI anyone and need one healer for it with no marks :S

[Prentice]

Hi Varius/Vareus. Grats on your ICC25 HM progression.

Is the idea of using DI really that bad?? I don't like the idea of having a holy pally cast DI, but what if the ret bit the bullet instead? Lets say that you choose to employ that strategy.

In preparing to go this route, you put a Soul stone on your ret pally. The ret can pre-pot, pop all of his cd's towards the beginning of the fight and even pop another pot before he DI's. Once he casts DI, he accepts the rez and has another pot available at the later stages of the fight because death seems to reset the potion/combat cooldown.

Pros:
-You can take that one person out of combat for 3 minutes and if needed, they should be able to help DPS if needed when you decide to blow hero/lust
-Losing a ret is nowhere near as bad as losing a holy pally
-By DI'ing the first mark, you are further delaying all subsequent marks. By delaying mark #1 long enough, you should have gained enough to not need to worry about the DI'd person coming back into combat at the latter stages of the fight.

Cons:
-The ret will lose a fair number of buffs, but should still do reasonable damage
-The DI'd person is just standing there with a thumb up their rear for a few minutes

[Varius]

I can understand using DI if you get a 7th mark and your healers basically find it impossible to keep that person up, but by using it on the first mark you've just nerfed your raid dps by 8kish. This fight is all about keeping people alive long enough to put enough dps on the boss to kill him. You can do this by Boping people to delay the first mark, and then boping as your almost killing him when the clothies with no damage reduction start getting in the one shot zone to keep them up until the win.

Everyone should be using their short cooldowns at the start of the fight then again at 30% you should also lust/hero because he gets his attack speed increase. And don't forget that he does more damage depending on the amount of blood power he has, so when hes at 0 the mark ticks for 5k, at 100% it hits for around 10k, add in a boil and clothies just evaporate.