Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[Elektrik]

for other classes it might not be bad, but it will definitely be bad for warriors and I am not just re-rolling another class because of "more interesting" changes they are implementing like I didnt re-roll when they nerfed warriors into the ground.

I'm legitimately confused by your lack of understanding here. If haste turns out to be bad for warriors, then don't gear for it. I really don't see a problem, and I really don't see how you think you'll NEED to use haste if it's bad.

[DSRilk]

Sooo... explain to me how the regen nerf will do anything but make me run out of mana faster?

This brings it to my point that encounters in 'Clysm, by this interpretation, will be about rDPS>healer mana pool.

So good healers don't cast 5 globals worth of hots inbetween a 6 second cooldown? Guess I've been playing wrong.

Apparently reading comprehension is more difficult than I thought. Some spells heal for more but cost more mana, or perhaps are instant cast but cost more mana. So if you spam big heals when you don't have to, for example, you will run out of mana. However, if you only use them when you need to, you will not. So it's not a mana race, it's a "how well do you know your spells, fights, and healing needs" game, which is what healing SHOULD be, but currently isn't due to huge haste and nigh unlimited mana.

[Brookes]

"•Existing Attack Power becomes Agility and Stamina.Armor Penetration becomes Haste or Crit."

WHAT THE HELL. I thought it was all becoming mastery no matter what? They had better make Haste worth a damn for warriors, especially fury. Even if it reduced your GCD fury has so many open GCDs that it doesn't really matter that much, unless they gave us an attack that was a proc like "Uppercut: Your Heroic Strike, Cleave, Bloodthirst and Slam crits have a 33% chance of allowing the use of this ability which deals 120% weapon damage plus x% of your AP and reduces healing on the target by 50% for 10 seconds"(to replace the god awful auto attack MS that is so RNG dependent it's not funny) or something.

Really isn't a suggestion thread...
And at any rate, you don't even know what new talents are coming out. Wouldn't you look quite the fool if 4.0 hits and the fury 61pt talent increases armor penetration based on how much haste you have?

[Kaedalmael]

I'm legitimately confused by your lack of understanding here. If haste turns out to be bad for warriors, then don't gear for it. I really don't see a problem, and I really don't see how you think you'll NEED to use haste if it's bad.

I think he actually means considering the fact that some of our stats on current gear is being turned into haste.

[hythos]

WoW is becomming everything else out there in the world....
Especially if they turn mana into fast-regen (think Rogue's energy regeneration).

Kinda interesting to see "these are changes people have been wanting since TBC".... Apparently I miss-checked the check-box for "I want more AQ40" and instead checked "I want crappy monotonous stats and a standard AZN MMO like everything else."

[Elektrik]

I think he actually means considering the fact that some of our stats on current gear is being turned into haste.

No, he doesn't. He expressed before that he couldn't care less about leveling (don't blame him...) when I pointed out that current gear doesn't matter at 85.

[Caeadas]

Hey lets make the game more complicated, since apparently that's what everyone in this thread wants...

DPS Caster Stat List

Stamina: more health
Intellect: more mana
Spirit: more regen
Spellpower: more damage
Crit: higher % to double damage
Haste: Faster casting
Cleverness: Spells cost less mana
Concern: spells heal a % your target's target
Patience: Less spell pushback
Fortitude: spells that increase your stats are increase by %
Bravery: decreases chance to be feared
Toughness: decreases chance to be stunned
Hit Rating: increases chance to successfully hit with spell (must be capped)
Spell pen: decreases resistance to spells (must be capped)
Spell expertise: decreases the chance of your spells being reflected (must be capped)
Speech skill: Decreases your chance to be interrupted (must be capped)
Spell skill: increases the hit rating of each spell (must be leveled for each spell)
Weapon Skill: increases the % of stats received from equipped weapon, offhand or wand (each must be 100%)
Armor Skill: increases % of stats received from equipped armor (each piece must be 100%)
Enhancement Skill: increases % of stats received from gems and enchantments (must be capped at 100%)

Frozen Bonespike
Binds when picked up
Unique
Main Hand Dagger
112 - 359 Damage Speed 1.80
(130.9 damage per second)
+67 Stamina
+67 Intellect
+59 Spirit
+61 Concern
+64 Patience
Durability 75 / 75
Requires Level 80
Item Level 264
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 59 (1.29% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 741.
Equip: Increases toughness by 67
Equip: Increases spell expertise by 73
Equip: Improves speech skill by 30

[Deleted]

for other classes it might not be bad, but it will definitely be bad for warriors and I am not just re-rolling another class because of "more interesting" changes they are implementing like I didnt re-roll when they nerfed warriors into the ground.

Moreover, how is removing stats from the game such as armor penetration, attack power and the effect of say agility to plate classes can make it "more interesting".

Like, seriously, how?

Firstly you have no idea how the changes will affect warriors because Blizzard have only released very superficial information about the changes. Until they start releasing far more details about the changes and how they will affect abilities/talents/gcds then noone knows exactly what impact they will have.

Secondly they're not removing stats like armor penetration or attack power. They're simply changing where those stats are found, armor penetration will come from talents and the Mastery stat whereas attack power will come from a conversion of str or agi depending on your class. Having attack power on items was always a ridiculous idea, keeping it solely as a conversion of primary stats makes for more sense and allows Blizz a lot more freedom with item budgeting.

[DSRilk]

Apparently I miss-checked the check-box for "I want more AQ40"

No, it's just that there only three WoW subscribers who checked that box.

[hythos]

what? you don't remember -10% dmg output applied to Titan's Grip talent?
at the same time they removed weapon's mastery (2% expertise) and hid it deep in to the arm tree so you could not reach it as fury spec

That made a lot of warriors quit or re-roll another class.

Not quit, but respec Protection. Had fun with that, and in PVP. Til Prot' got nerfed for PVP. Then I quit. 'cept I quit for all these "features" listed in the revamp..

GO GO SWG NGE!!!

[Grimraven]

I'm legitimately confused by your lack of understanding here. If haste turns out to be bad for warriors, then don't gear for it. I really don't see a problem, and I really don't see how you think you'll NEED to use haste if it's bad.

because there WILL NOT be anything else to use.
you will gear for hit and expertise till you are capped and then the only choice you will have will be critical strike... WOW that's a lot of options right there

so what will you take?
Critical strike or .... well... critical strike?

[Brookes]

WoW is becomming everything else out there in the world....
Especially if they turn mana into fast-regen (think Rogue's energy regeneration).

Kinda interesting to see "these are changes people have been wanting since TBC".... Apparently I miss-checked the check-box for "I want more AQ40" and instead checked "I want crappy monotonous stats and a standard AZN MMO like everything else."

He's right, and any vanilla player should agree. In FACT, they should have added a few more stats, they have mastery coming, but they can throw a few more in just to keep things as murky and convoluted as possible. Who cares if noone wants to play it because you have to spend half an hour adding things up on something that's supposed to be considered a "game", as long as those crotchety old vanilla players are happy right?

[Elektrik]

because there WILL NOT be anything else to use.
you will gear for hit and expertise till you are capped and then the only choice you will have will be critical strike... WOW that's a lot of options right there

so what will you take?
Critical strike or .... well... critical strike?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe strength.

[Brookes]

because there WILL NOT be anything else to use.
you will gear for hit and expertise till you are capped and then the only choice you will have will be critical strike... WOW that's a lot of options right there

so what will you take?
Critical strike or .... well... critical strike?

fail trolling is quite fail, the proverbial door is thataway ---->

[Brookes]

Hey lets make the game more complicated, since apparently that's what everyone in this thread wants...

DPS Caster Stat List

Stamina: more health
Intellect: more mana
Spirit: more regen
Spellpower: more damage
Crit: higher % to double damage
Haste: Faster casting
Cleverness: Spells cost less mana
Concern: spells heal a % your target's target
Patience: Less spell pushback
Fortitude: spells that increase your stats are increase by %
Bravery: decreases chance to be feared
Toughness: decreases chance to be stunned
Hit Rating: increases chance to successfully hit with spell (must be capped)
Spell pen: decreases resistance to spells (must be capped)
Spell expertise: decreases the chance of your spells being reflected (must be capped)
Speech skill: Decreases your chance to be interrupted (must be capped)
Spell skill: increases the hit rating of each spell (must be leveled for each spell)
Weapon Skill: increases the % of stats received from equipped weapon, offhand or wand (each must be 100%)
Armor Skill: increases % of stats received from equipped armor (each piece must be 100%)
Enhancement Skill: increases % of stats received from gems and enchantments (must be capped at 100%)

Frozen Bonespike
Binds when picked up
Unique
Main Hand Dagger
112 - 359 Damage Speed 1.80
(130.9 damage per second)
+67 Stamina
+67 Intellect
+59 Spirit
+61 Concern
+64 Patience
Durability 75 / 75
Requires Level 80
Item Level 264
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 59 (1.29% @ L80).
Equip: Increases spell power by 741.
Equip: Increases toughness by 67
Equip: Increases spell expertise by 73
Equip: Improves speech skill by 30

I lol'd.

[DSRilk]

as long as those crotchety old vanilla players are happy right?

Hey, this old vanilla player remembers back in vanilla when there were far less stats and it was... more complicated? My actual point is that I like most of the changes, so please don't slander all us old timers just because a few people who probably didn't even play vanilla are whining about how great it was way back when

[Deleted]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe strength.

Or Mastery perhaps?

[Brookes]

Hey, this old vanilla player remembers back in vanilla when there were far less stats and it was... more complicated? My actual point is that I like most of the changes, so please don't slander all us old timers just because a few people who probably didn't even play vanilla are whining about how great it was way back when

Like old people, there's still many of whom I enjoy the company of, save for the smell...

[Raith]

[blizzquote="Ghostcrawler;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/29/23425636414-cataclysm-stat--system-changes.html"]Think about it like this:

DPS cloth: Int, Sta, Hit, Haste, Crit, Mastery (mage, warlock, Shadow priest)
Healing cloth: Int, Sta, Spirit, Haste, Crit, Mastery (Holy and Disc priest)

Melee leather: Agi, Sta, Hit, Haste, Crit, Mastery, Expertise (rogue, Feral druid)
Spellpower leather: Int, Sta, Spirit, Haste, Crit, Mastery (Resto, Balance druid)

Physical mail: Agi, Sta, Hit, Haste, Crit, Mastery, Expertise (hunter, Enhancement shaman)
Spellpower mail: Int, Sta, Spirit, Haste, Crit, Mastery (Resto, Elemental shaman)

DPS Plate: Str, Sta, Hit, Haste, Crit, Mastery, Expertise (Fury, Arms, Retribution, dps DKs)
Tanking plate: Str, Sta, Hit, Armor, Dodge, Block, Parry, Mastery, Expertise (Prot, Prot and tanking DKs)
Healing plate: Int, Sta, Spirit, Haste, Crit, Mastery (Holy paladins)

There will be exceptions. There might be some spellpower cloth with no hit or Spirit that healers and nukers may want. There will likely be Elemental tier sets with no Spirit. Jewelry and cloaks will be more class agnostic than actual armor pieces.

I wrote that quickly, so hopefully I didn't mangle anything.

[Grimraven]

Secondly they're not removing stats like armor penetration or attack power. They're simply changing where those stats are found, armor penetration will come from talents and the Mastery stat whereas attack power will come from a conversion of str or agi depending on your class. Having attack power on items was always a ridiculous idea, keeping it solely as a conversion of primary stats makes for more sense and allows Blizz a lot more freedom with item budgeting.

No, no and NO!

Having armor penetration in talents is just not enough, because you cannot cap it and thus it's not as good of a stat.

Removing Attack power from items and making agility mean nothing to plate users will make you wear plate which has TONS of stamina which DOES not improve your DPS ! So in result you lose.