Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[Killigan]

Sorry if it has been said before, but I don't think tanks are gonna have to gem all Stamina. I'm pretty sure blizzard stated that bosses are gonna hit for less per hit so tanks can take multiple hits but that healers will have to heal multiple times to bring back your health to full. Gemming for avoidance might overcome stamina if healers have to deal with mana. Gemming for stamina was there to avoid beeing 2-3 shotted by bosses on an unlucky streak.

[XenofeX]

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

LOL

Haven't read all 40 pages but I'm trying yo find out how will PVP gear be modified (Spirit-hit on ele shamans?) or if there will be different PVP tree or talents

[Skullchukka]

Tl;dr
40 pages of QQ

[Deviltry]

Tl;dr
40 pages of QQ

Nope.

[Zweistein]

everybody knows what to pick is because of simulators and EJ.

just because you need ej-people to tell you what to do and consequently belief in the "top-dps" spreadsheets to be the "ultimate truth" doesnt necessarily mean there are no other ways to reach the goal successful (kill a boss) and wow is complicated.

[Tang]

just because you need ej-people to tell you what to do and consequently belief in the "top-dps" spreadsheets to be the "ultimate truth" doesnt necessarily mean there are no other ways to reach the goal successful (kill a boss) and wow is complicated.

Sorry, what does that have to do with making stats easier to understand or making them more of a real choice?

Because you seem to be saying 'Wow is so easy that I can be sub optimal and still succeed" which of course isn't really true for most players, but even it's true for every single player, it's not some thing that will change or not change according to how easy to understand gear stats become.

If the point of your post is actually "I am SO smart!" then I think you failed to make that point.

[jontaxe]

I highly doubt that this bullshit will go live. They removed EVERY sense of progression in this xpac so you can go from heroics -> ICC...

The above change would be a 180° turn, since it forces players to progress all raids in order to get that much hit/crit/whatever in order to do the proper and needed damage.

Also it's quite an idiotic mechanic to need different hit values for different encounters oO

I think you are misunderstanding what is about to happen on the other end.
Warning: Pure speculation.

Right now, from Anubrekhan to the Lich King, every single boss has (for example) the same miss chance: 17% for spells, 8% for 2h, 27% for DW.

What they might do is change it so that as you progress in raid tiers each boss gets better at dodging in addition to the usual more HP and harder hits. So, for example, the first T11 bosses (the Cat version of Anubrekhan) have a 7% chance for spells to miss, the end T11 boss (Cat's Kelthuzad) say 9%, the next tier (XT) has a 12% chance for spells to miss, etc. etc. all the way up.

That way more hit becomes desirable during progression raids. When you first enter the new tier with last raid's gear you will miss like crazy, but as you gear up and put stuff on farm mode you'll hit cap that tier (and, of course, be way over the hit cap for last tier, which you won't care about anyway).

[jontaxe]

What i'm talking about is complicated maximisation.

tl;dr - You can have an IQ of 300, but it still won't matter.

Don't bother, man... 90% of the elitist wannabes reading this don't even understand the question, let alone the answer.

"Not even wrong"

[Granyala]

Hit rating, Haste, and Crit are the only things that people talk about "caps" for, and after the cap they become increasingly useless. To the point that raiders have to decide to either take an upgrade from a new raid that has a ton of haste and then redesign the rest of their gear to not be so over-cap, or they just pass on that particular item and wait for an alternative with no hit. These changes make sure that Hit remains important, and an interesting choice (do I take this item for when we move into the next tier, or do I wait and hope I can get something there that will bump me up? Is this item a dps upgrade in this tier? Is it a dps upgrade in the next tier?).

It's still pretty DUMB design to reintroduce the "miss factor" they patched out releasing 3.0. Also I promise you that the "normal WoW-Guy" will be unable to grasp that concept. I know it sounds terribly arrogant, but there it is. I met so many peeps out there who think that hit doesn't have a cap and stack it....

I think you are misunderstanding what is about to happen on the other end.

In light of your speculative example: Nope I understood completely.

There is a WAY WAY easier solution to this problem: DESIGN LESS PIECES WITH HIT. Don't put that annoying stat on (felt value) 75% of the loots.

[Mormegil]

All I'm seeing from the blue post is "thanks for spending gold, mats and badges on the gear that our poor ability to itemise items properly has forced you into taking to maximise your effectiveness in your guild's raid. now we're gonna screw you over. kthxbai!"

Seriously, a number of BiS items for a plate dps are what I like to refer to as "rogue" itemised gear. If the gear which had been aimed at plate dps was itemised right, and I'm looking at you here Ashen Verdict Might ring and frost badge cloak, then maybe we'd have taken it in the first place and wouldn't now be looking at items which as gonna be next to worthless once these changes drop. We were supposed to thank Blizzard for adding the ashen might ring, but it seems to me they had to add it or these changes would have left a hole for plate dps in this department, and they didn't even offer a free swap.

Any DPS worth his/her salt is gemming for ArP right now, can I ask what it going to happen to those gems when the stat changes happen? Have we got a huge regemming bill ahead of us?

And finally, a question about reforging. Can a BS reforge someone else's souldbound armour? If not, does that mean that to maximise DPS every plate dps is gonna have to learn blacksmithing?

I'll continue to play now and when Cataclysm drops, I'm not gonna QQ and say I'm quitting bring on SWTOR, but these changes almost seem to say "limit your raid potential or we're gonna punish you in a few months time".

[jontaxe]

There is a WAY WAY easier solution to this problem: DESIGN LESS PIECES WITH HIT. Don't put that annoying stat on (felt value) 75% of the loots.

That's a worse solution. (IMO). Having all bosses in an entire 2+ year expansion all have the same exact miss chance is sort of silly. It means there is only one of two possible paths:
1) Like now you hit cap early (pre raiding, as a matter of fact) and have the current situation: once you hit cap all further hit is useless.
2) You hit cap late. If they do like you say and DESIGN LESS PIECES WITH HIT (ZOMG!!!!!) you won't hit cap until the last tier of the expansion, if ever. If that happens, then hit will always be the most important stat, by far, always; any and all other stats and gear choices will be subjugated to hit. There will, in fact, be 0 gear choice. The answer will always be "get the piece with more hit".

A static, universal miss chance is sort of dumb.

[Zweistein]

What i'm talking about is complicated maximisation.

yeah maximisation may be complicated but maximisation is not naccessary (or only to a small degree). its more a passion of some.

its all fair and square to do it, long live the ej-community, but to belief dps-spreadsheeds are the "wholy grail" of wow-wisdom without which there is no progress possible is simply wrong.

plus i highly doubt blizz is making this changes for the elitist jerks anyway.

[Unholyground]

Looks like Shaman will be wearing leather for healing gear becasue they has to share with Druids :P. Haste is also becoming melee only. The parry change is kick ass now that Ret, Fury, Arms, will be able to Tank, not to mention in pvp scenarios parry will be bitchin.

[Critterbot]

hurray! no more ArP

[Elenion]

Good god, did you even read the blue post?

More than half of people posting in this post are either asking questions/qqing because they failed to read OR qqing because they think polished, smooth game experience = 2ez mode.

[Unholyground]

Good god, did you even read the blue post?

Yeah I did but you make no argument.

[Unholyground]

Serious failure in reading comprehension then . . .

About what part? They will itemize for multiple classes so that non tier gear for shaman and druid will probably both be leather, the armor difference wont matter anymore. They are also making all defensive stance like abilities give you the def cap so Ret, Fury, Arms, all DK, and Bear form can tank heroics so people don't have to wait ages for tanks. Haste is melee/ranged melee resource only as far as I can tell unless it has different effects for mana users.

How about the argument that Shamans will benefit by using mail-gear due to extra Mastery?

Doesn't mean leather wont be as good to a shaman.

[Apopo]

For all those confused, I'm pretty sure they stated numerous times already that they're gonna add penalties for classes that wear armour that isn't meant for them. Warriors wearing mail/leather will be fucked up the ass, as would be Shamans wearing leather or cloth. It ain't just about armour not mattering, it's the new Mastery stat.

Regarding the changes - sounds very interesting. Looking forward to them muchly. Healers won't be contending with me for my DPS caster gear now, either ;D Woop woop woop woop!

[Unholyground]

There will be shaman caster gear. In fact healer gear will be identical in stats for all healers. You will get additional mastery rating for picking gear of your appropriate armor level. They are adding additional utility to haste but it will remain as is for casters. Crit suppression from stances is against creatures NOT players.

Ya that's all fine, defense should never effect player crits that's what made tanks OP in PvP, The Parry change is the most interesting change I see up there. I like the mastery idea for armor type.

I hope to see more restrictions on loot in dungeons tho this ninja shit is BS, you should only be able to need roll on direct upgrades to your highest item level gear piece that your rolling on.

[Apopo]

Ehm they did say that they will craft gear with no hit or spirit and healers will be going for it if they are having no mana trouble.

Did they not also say that they wanted to bring back the whole "oh noes I am running out of mana" issues that healers always used to have, back in the day? All in an effort to make healing more "interesting"? Still, can't see it as being too much of a problem. Lemme amend what I said for you; "Healers won't be contending with me for my DPS caster gear for the grand majority of the time, either ;D Woop woop woop woop woop woop!"