Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[videotape]

It really doesn't matter what Blizzard does or how awesome it is, people always find a reason to cry about it. I'd bet 1000g that most of the people whining about Blizzard making stats "easier" to understand are people who let others do the work of actually understanding them (i.e., EJ, spreadsheets, sims, other forums).

[jontaxe]

I'd bet 1000g that most of the people whining about Blizzard making stats "easier"

Sucker bet

Do you guys remember when there were two different redundant AP stats: AP and Ranged AP? Man, it sucked when they got rid of that. Totally made all gear choices EZ Moad. Ended theorycrafting that very same day.

Do you remember the good old days when there was both +healing and +spell damage? Man, back then the men were men and the leet were leet and you could tell a noob trying to DPS in +heal gear and lol. Then they changed it to just +SP because they were dumbing down the game and killing all theorycrafting and now any caster of any spec can pick any piece of gear and be OK. Combining RAP and AP and +heal and +dmg just made the game retard proof just like combining +AP and +ArP and Spir and MP5 will...

Oh, and for those missing the obvious: That was sarcasm. You QQ ers literally have no clue what you are talking about. Where's that zargzak idiot been lately?

[Poysonivy]

Hey where is the Darklegacy comic and teh fail glads..?

Altho it was nice to min max certain stats I hope now there will be more choices in the BiS and also the way you alter stats will effect that.

[gringo]

All I'm seeing from the blue post is "thanks for spending gold, mats and badges on the gear that our poor ability to itemise items properly has forced you into taking to maximise your effectiveness in your guild's raid. now we're gonna screw you over. kthxbai!"

Seriously, a number of BiS items for a plate dps are what I like to refer to as "rogue" itemised gear. If the gear which had been aimed at plate dps was itemised right, and I'm looking at you here Ashen Verdict Might ring and frost badge cloak, then maybe we'd have taken it in the first place and wouldn't now be looking at items which as gonna be next to worthless once these changes drop. We were supposed to thank Blizzard for adding the ashen might ring, but it seems to me they had to add it or these changes would have left a hole for plate dps in this department, and they didn't even offer a free swap.

Any DPS worth his/her salt is gemming for ArP right now, can I ask what it going to happen to those gems when the stat changes happen? Have we got a huge regemming bill ahead of us?

And finally, a question about reforging. Can a BS reforge someone else's souldbound armour? If not, does that mean that to maximise DPS every plate dps is gonna have to learn blacksmithing?

nerdrage much?
1) On one hand you complain about poor itemization and on the other hand you complain about Billzard planning to fix said itemization issues. Make up your mind...

2) The lifetime of 4.0 before cataclysm hits is relatively short. You should not have to worry about "spending tons of gold" to update your gear which is sure to be replaced when you start leveling or soon after.

3) Reforging: try using your brain for once. Do you really think reforging will require everyone to train BS? They already stated that reforging will be along the lines of usable scrolls (Hit -> Parry, e.g.).

[verified pro]

i like the fact they are making the game more streamlined so we can focus on the fun and not the stats. I also love the weapon skill change.

[Arandmoor]

Does anyone understand how Parry will work??

Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

If I Parry an attack, the next attach will do 50% damage. Does that mean that the second attack does not roll again on the hit table? Does that mean there is 0% chance to dodge that atatck.

An example would be where you know a massive hit is coming from a boss in the next few seconds, and you parry the attack before it. Does this mean you are definately going to take 50% dmg from the massive hit or is there still a chance to Dodge it completely?

N.B I think in general the changes seem good and it will make gear selection a lot easier and I love the option to shuffle your stats for different ones (even if it is only 50% of the choosen stat).

Did you seriously register to post this? Really?

Read the post goddamnit. "If they hit at all", means that yes, the follow-up attack rolls to hit as normal. Because of how Blizzard tends to handle stacking similar effects I'm guessing if you proc the parry effect two hits in a row you'll simply take 50% damage from three hits in a row. Not 25% damage from attack number two.

A better (read: non-retarded) question would be "How will blocking a hit reduced by 50% by a previous parry work?" Will it hit for 20% damage (will the block reduction be calculated off of the initial hit?) or 35% damage (will the block reduction be calculated off of the reduced damage?)?. Prot warriors will care.

[DrgnDancer]

There's no chance that this is going to end the QQ, or shut up the people that think they "know" how this is going to work out, but I'll give it a shot. Guys, there are three primary "legs" to character mechanics in 4.0. A completely redesigned gear system (which we're seeing the skeleton of here), a completely redesigned talent system, and Path of the Titans. What we have now is the skeleton, the barest outline, of one of those legs. Even with the information here we still know very little about gear. We don't know how they are going to re-itemize our old stuff (to the extent that it matters) or itemize the new stuff beyond some vague hand waving of what stats will be on what types of gear. We know nothing at all about talents or PotT. No information at all has been released about either beyond that they are going to be "cool". How the HELL are you making dire predictions? You don't know CRAP.

1) OMG! MY Shaman is going to need Leather!- You don't know how mastery will work, or what the mastery penalty will be for down ranking armor types. It could be a hugely bad thing. You don't know. Just cause it works that way now means nothing.

2) OMG! Haste on Warrior gear! Haste is terrible for Warriors!- Do you know they're putting haste on Warrior gear? No? They said Arp will becomes some haste, some crit. Maybe the plate will be mostly crit and the leather mostly haste. Who knows? Maybe they'll make a change in talents or PotT (or the rage generation system) that makes haste useful to Warriors. You don't know.

3) OMG! Spirit is terrible for $healerclasse/Spirit is great for $DPSclass!- You don't know how the talents will change. Maybe a talent in the Holy tree makes spirit=SP for holy Pallies? Maybe Fire Shield gets changed to use Int instead of Spirit for Crit bonus? You don't know.

4) OMG! They're making everything easy!- Have you tried theorycrafting with the new stats and talents? No? How do you know it's easier? They're only actually removing like two stats, and adding mastery. You don't know.

5) OMG! Any plate wearer will be able to tank in the right stance! Tanking is dead!- Maybe there will talents in the various Prot trees to make "activate" these stance/form/presence uncritable modifiers? Something like Druid SoF, which is what Blizz claims to be basing this on? You don't know.

In closing, we don't know anything yet. We have the barest possible look at one bit of the redesign. If you want to QQ after you've seen the talents, PotT, and gotten some idea for what the gear will actually look like, that's fine. I might still disagree with you, but at least we'll have some actual facts to argue about. Right now you just look like Chicken Little screaming about something you don't have any real understanding of. Not that I do have an understanding, just that I know what I don't know (essentially everything at this point)

[Unholyground]

Uhm, READ THE BLUE POST!

If a shaman wears MAIL he gets a BONUS in Mastery.
If he wears LEATHER he does NOT get the bonus.

That is why people told you to learn to read.

I am just saying if leather drops and its healing on my shaman and its an upgrade I am taking it weather i get a bonus or not, its still an upgrade, see what I am saying?

[Arandmoor]

I am just saying if leather drops and its healing on my shaman and its an upgrade I am taking it weather i get a bonus or not, its still an upgrade, see what I am saying?

And we're just hypothesizing that taking leather over mail when you're a mail wearer will hurt you. One piece? Fine.

If you're a resto shaman running around in tree gear OTOH, you're going to be labeled a scrubby retard because the more non-type gear you take the more mastery you'll lose out on, and if Mastery is half as sexy as it sounds skipping it will be tantamount to suicide from a play-perspective. Not because the gear won't be an up, but because people will look at you and wonder what the fuck you're doing.

[Unholyground]

And we're just hypothesizing that taking leather over mail when you're a mail wearer will hurt you. One piece? Fine.

If you're a resto shaman running around in tree gear OTOH, you're going to be labeled a scrubby retard because the more non-type gear you take the more mastery you'll lose out on, and if Mastery is half as sexy as it sounds skipping it will be tantamount to suicide from a play-perspective. Not because the gear won't be an up, but because people will look at you and wonder what the fuck you're doing.

There is Armor Mastery and Talent Mastery they are not the same. The armor one is a minor increase in stats. If your a healer and your running dungeons and you getting shit luck with your healing gear dropping then your going to take the lesser one. It is not really that big of a deal. It happens now, the only thing different is all lesser healing gear will benefit you more than it does currently becasue of all healers using spirit.

[Deleted]

There is Armor Mastery and Talent Mastery they are not the same. The armor one is a minor increase in stats. If your a healer and your running dungeons and you getting shit luck with your healing gear dropping then your going to take the lesser one. It is not really that big of a deal. It happens now, the only thing different is all lesser healing gear will benefit you more than it does currently becasue of all healers using spirit.

The mastery stat on gear is linked to the mastery bonuses given to you by talents, i.e. your talent choices will determine what exactly the mastery stat on gear does for your character. And from what little information has been released it appears that the mastery stat will increase the effectiveness of the most desirable mastery bonus given by your talents, if that's the case it's unlikely to be something you're just going to want to pass over as not a big deal.

[Unholyground]

The mastery stat on gear is linked to the mastery bonuses given to you by talents, i.e. your talent choices will determine what exactly the mastery stat on gear does for your character. And from what little information has been released it appears that the mastery stat will increase the effectiveness of the most desirable mastery bonus given by your talents, if that's the case it's unlikely to be something you're just going to want to pass over as not a big deal.

It depends on how they finally go about it. I am wondering if you have to pick specific talents to get the mysteries or if the per tree ones just happen by spending so many talent points in that tree.

[DrgnDancer]

It depends on how they finally go about it. I am wondering if you have to pick specific talents to get the mysteries or if the per tree ones just happen by spending so many talent points in that tree.

But the problem is that you've been making unequivocal statements this entire time as if you did have that information. If you'd said, "depending on how this mastery stuff works, it might be really beneficial to just use leather gear... we'll see how it plays out" I don't think anyone would have said anything. But like half the people in this this thread you're making definitive statements with less than a quarter of the information you need to be definitive about anything.

[Deleted]

It depends on how they finally go about it. I am wondering if you have to pick specific talents to get the mysteries or if the per tree ones just happen by spending so many talent points in that tree.

Am fairly certain they've already stated it's linked to the number of points spent in a tree, which would kinda make sense considering they're trying to get away from the current situation of there being certain talents that have to be picked up because of the passive stat increase they provide.

[Unholyground]

Am fairly certain they've already stated it's linked to the number of points spent in a tree, which would kinda make sense considering they're trying to get away from the current situation of there being certain talents that have to be picked up because of the passive stat increase they provide.

Then I can see it working out fine then. Like they said in the post tho, there might be other reasons to keep you using a piece of gear that is not your proficiency. I would assume it would be equip effects.

[Epics]

You know what guys I guess bunch of you are rerolling the new Races, And I'm one of them so i'm just gana enjoy my easy new and old Quests, Gear that makes sense in lower lvls and A kick ass starting place, with the phase system, stop thinking so negative we only know about 5 % of the changes which might not even happen, it's a working progress so don't scream your heads off just yet .PEACE

[Jasyn]

It depends on how they finally go about it. I am wondering if you have to pick specific talents to get the mysteries or if the per tree ones just happen by spending so many talent points in that tree.

From the information given so far, masteries work like this:

Each tree has three mastery bonuses. The third of which is unique to each talent tree (30 total). These mastery bonuses are increased by investing more points in the tree.

The third stat is the ONLY ONE AFFECTED by the mastery stat on gear.

The mastery stat ONLY AFFECTS the mastery of the tree in which you have the most talent points.


As for having the appropriate gear, I imagine it won't be a HUGE loss if you take leather over mail, e.g., but it will be one significant enough to make you really consider the upgrade.

If going from Mail Chest A to Leather Chest B, one has to weigh the benefit of increased stats vs. the added benefit of sticking to your correct armor class.

So, imagine the circumstance of an enhancement shaman:

He has Mail Chest A: It provides 30 agi, 30 sta, 50 AP, 30 crit
He is looking at Leather Chest B: It provides 31 agi, 30 sta, 55 ap, 32 crit.

It's a direct upgrade in basically every way. However, if the mastery bonus of wearing mail were, perhaps, 1% overall increased damage, there's no way he would take a few AP and crit over a straight up 1% increase.

But if Leather Chest C provided: 50 agi, 50 sta, 100 AP, 50 crit, then leather would likely win out.



/longwindedpost

[Myria]

Oh, and for those missing the obvious: That was sarcasm. You QQ ers literally have no clue what you are talking about.

The problem is that removing stats has not, by any stretch of the imagination, always made the game better in the past (just ask bear druids, if you can find one, good luck with that, and I'd go back to +heal gear in a heartbeat if it meant having gear that was actually decently itemized for healers and not DPS hand-me-downs), and frankly no one knows what they're talking about since there is virtually no real information to work from.

In short, YOU literally have no clue.

At this point no one does. It's just that the so-called QQers (an idiot's shorthand for "you don't agree with me, so I'll call you names") mostly know it and the "Everything will be great!" side is apparently clueless about just how little is really known.

[bloodyangel]

im gonna be optimistic as im satisfied wow is gonna be closer to how it was in vanilla, you still get the "stats" one way or another, but not all on gear, and gear gonna be more specific to dps/healer/tank, and to add... you are encouraged to use the type of gear that was designed for you. there are some additions that are not 100% clear yet, we just have to wait and judge them when we have more concrete info about them

but overall "if done right", we wont have much problems with stats high rocketing every tier with scaling vs higher tier mobs... just hope they "do it right"...

[Vehemence]

I am just saying if leather drops and its healing on my shaman and its an upgrade I am taking it weather i get a bonus or not, its still an upgrade, see what I am saying?

omg...