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  1. #241

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    So you're saying that if I'm a shitty dps I get yelled at for being bad, but if I'm a shitty tank I can just blame the dps?
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  2. #242

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    /applause to the OP - however you're talking to a non-receptive group ; )

  3. #243
    High Overlord Naivedo's Avatar
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    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    I agree that high geared tanks roll DPS for heroics because it's less dramatic. I do it all the time. Mostly because as a Death Knight, the first boss of HoR owns us even in ICC gear and I rather not waste my time. Death Knights aren't built to tank wave trash because of their low avoidance.

  4. #244

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by krasgoth
    The trouble is this: You, as generic hunter, rogue, mage, or warlock, telling a feral druid who likes to be kitty, a death knight who likes to do unholy dps, or a paladin who likes to be ret to "Man up and start tanking some instances" is like demanding buffs from people in a battleground.

    Yeah, I guess it would be nice if the DK or Feral or Paladin tanked for you, but they're under no obligation to do so. In fact, they probably like playing their class just fine.

    Even if you convinced 500 hybrids to do this, you wouldn't notice queue times improve at all, simply because of how many MORE dps there are out there than tanks. Yeah, there's a ratio of 3 dps to 1 tank in instances, but the reason queues are slow is because the actual queue is more like *50* dps to 1 tank queuing.
    He's not trying to force anyone into tanking. He's talking about the people that have thought about it but decided aganist it cause of people being douches towards tanks.

  5. #245

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by godofslack
    DPS are expendable. There is not a single fight in the game that can't be done with 1 tank and the rest healers. Seriously. 24 healers in 25 man ICC would NEVER run out of mana. Enrage my ass. When a tank is recieving over 50k HPS as long as they don't get one shotted they'll have no problems. Sure it will take forever. But, it would teach the "UBER LEET DPS" douches they aren't needed. I never trash on the tank even if they don't do well (I do warn them if they are undergeared for something though).
    Every boss with an enrage timer and Beserk Timer and spawning adds would like to have a word with your theory.

  6. #246

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixhart
    Every boss with an enrage timer and Beserk Timer and spawning adds would like to have a word with your theory.
    add that it would be impossible to just do heroic forge of souls with that theory too. The skull would get to the boss every single time and heal it to full.

  7. #247

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    I read the OP...skipped 99% of replies (not gonna read 17 pages of people bitching about nonsense)...but please forgive me if someone has already stated the obvious...

    The Q time for DPS is so long because the ratio of tanks to dps is so high...especially in the current world of dual specs.

    I would wager per server there are at least 40 dps for each tank...those numbers are probably much higher but just a rough estimate.

    Just think about your guild list....Most guilds that do 25m content may have a grand total of 3-4 "geared/good" tanks. Then they have maybe 5-7 "offspec/faster Q's" tanks. That's roughly 10 tanks out of a guild list that probably contains 40-60 main characters with 100+ alts between them all and maybe 25 healers in all. It gets to be a bigger disparity in 10m guilds...or PvP guilds...or guilds of just RL friends for chat...or the countless numbers of guildless players.

    You wanna make Q's shorter for dps? Here's how:

    If you are a DPS and you CAN tank or heal...then Q for that instead and roll on dps gear/spend badges on it.

    It doesn't take 50k hp to tank...you can tank any heroic outside of IC 5m's and TotC 5m with 25k hp...threat may be an issue...but chances are the dps will compensate or drop out and slowly fill up with folks who can handle your low threat.

    I've geared up a Pally DPS by tanking and am gearing up a DK dps by tanking...and will gear up my shaman by healing...then dps with him.

    When I get a new piece or a new set bonus I wanna try out I will Q as dps only and just wait it out to see what its like in 5m's...but if I still need badges I will continue to tank/heal till I am done with the badge grind.

  8. #248

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by krasgoth

    *bashes dead horse over the skull again*

    ...
    THAT. NEVER. HAPPENS.
    ...
    Nearly that exact scenario has happened to me before. A few times, actually. While this sort of behavior is far from the majority, it does happen. While you may be reasonable when you're in a 5man, everyone else doesn't always behave themselves.

  9. #249

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Propain
    LOL, You can duo any of the heroics besides H HoR with just tank/heals...stopy trying to fool yourself, as none of the bosses in heroics have any sort of enrage.
    Actually Bronjahm and Eck both have enrage timers. Though Bronjahm's is like 20 minutes.

  10. #250

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gomexus
    here's the problem, just because you can tank, does not mean that you should tank. There are tons of people that regardless of gear shouldn't tank.

    If people actually did this, then the QQ threads about tanks, of which there are numerous, would at minimum triple in size.


    Edit: shortened quote. --Sunshine

  11. #251

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    To the person on the first page who said "DPS'ers are the ones who get carried"

    Sure without a tank you can continue...
    Now take away the 3 dps, a tank and healer? sure its plausable, just the same as no Tank and 3 dps with a healer. Plausable, not practible.

    Now take away the healer, with good dps and a good tank still doable. Plausable, not practible.

    What it comes down to is that everyone is of equal value in a group.
    "If you don't know who I am -- then maybe your best course is to tread lightly." - W.W.

  12. #252

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Tank Solo - Plausible and FUN

    (my kind of fun anyway)

  13. #253

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    agree 100%


    Edit: cut quote. --Sunshine

  14. #254

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by krasgoth
    @OP:

    How hard exactly is it for ICC25 geared tanks to tank a heroic? Here are the steps you have to follow to complete an instance in 15 minutes:

    1) Click the queue button as tank. You are instantly rewarded a spot within 5 seconds.

    2) Run your face into groups of mobs, completely ignoring any of what other dps does, until you kill the last boss, and loot your frost emblems.

    Unless dps is pulling 4 groups at a time (which is impossible) you can handle anything in a heroic. Affixing your lips to a new tank's butt if he has done poorly in a run isn't going to breed a generation of new, amazing tanks, it will grow a generation of lazy slackasses, much like the ones already in heroics and raids today.

    Compliment the ones that do well if you have to, but not the ones that suck.

    If you think tanking is a thankless job, you probably aren't a very good tank.
    tanking is a thankless job, no other roles gets as yelled/spit/abused(the list goes on) as the tanks, it doesnt matter how we perform in the heroics, if its a fast run or extrealy fast run or in normal speed, dps is getting longer and longer queues cause there is so many tanks that no longer tank heroics cause we get constant abuse from 98% of the dpsers in randoms no matter what we do, and the dps queue aint gona get any lower, its gona get longer if they dont change there attitude

  15. #255

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Tanking is a thankless job..

    ... if you're not a good tank.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  16. #256
    I'm so VUP Citaxis's Avatar
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    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by krasgoth
    Tanking is a thankless job..

    ... if you're not a good tank.
    Speaking as someone who does 5 random dailies, 2 with tanks, 2 with DPS, and 1 with a healer, EVERYTHING is thankless.

    Tanking is an especially thankless job, since the majority of the time everybody just comes in, does the instance, and leaves without saying a word, or somebody does something stupid and then complains at the tank for not handling it. Tell me, all of you, when was the last time YOU thanked a tank?

    "Oh, I thanked a really good one once 'cause he saved our rears when _____ did something stupid." Well, you know, that's all well and good, but what about the other 49 tanks afterward who did what they were supposed to, did it well, passed on everything, and then left without saying a word? Everyone does that most of the time, anything else is far and few between. 2% recognition seems pretty "thankless" to me.

    But it isn't just limited to tanks, either...Thank your healers for doing their best to keep everyone alive, most of them really do try, and thank the DPS in your group for helping out and silencing, CCing, pulling loose adds off the healer to the tank, and what-have-you that they don't really need to do, but do anyway to help out. When's the last time you thanked some random MM hunter for MDing, then hitting a caster in the back with Silencing Shot to make the tank's life that much easier? When's the last time you thanked a Shadow priest for locking down a mage in H-HoR with Shackle, or a Ret pally for tossing out a Repentance on a Shadowcaster in H-OK? (This is also a nudge to people who play DPS and DON'T do these kinds of things). Everyone who does a good job deserves at least a token of appreciation, even if it's just a /thank and a /smile at them.

    I remember a while ago, I was doing a random H-Gundrak, tanking on the paladin. Our healer had just respecced from Boomkin to Resto, it was his first level 80, freshly there, quest greens and blues and what-have-you, not a single crafted epic. When he came in, he actually apologized in advance if we weren't satisfied with his healing, and offered to leave freely if we weren't happy. I promptly /winked at him, and told him, "Shut up and hang on, baby!" I had a quick look at our three DPS' gear, saw it was all fairly weak (I like DPS in weak gear, I can pull six groups in a row without losing aggro to them, and let 'em AoE the whole pack down), and proceeded to chain-pull the entire Heroic trash in 5 pulls, pulling bosses separately. The poor druid chased me through the whole instance going, "Wait! I don't think I can heal very well, you might not want to take that many!" Whenever I dropped below 40% health, I popped a cooldown or two to help him out (Divine Protection, plus armor pots and an armor trinket).

    Finished the whole instance in about 20 minutes with me at top DPS with 3.5k as a tank, then the other DPS coming in between 1-2k apiece. After the last boss died, I turned to the druid, and said, "You did an absolutely amazing job, not many healers can keep up with that kind of pulling " He gave me about 8 smiley faces, then thanked me for being an absolutely awesome tank. I checked up on him in the Armory a few weeks later, and he had apparently gotten some very good gear out of 25-man ToC and an ICC rep ring, and was still Resto. I like to think that day I helped cultivate another healer who wouldn't be scared about keeping up with a chain-pulling tank, and would stay a healer instead of going back to DPS. Just writing that story out made me feel totally awesome all over again .

    For those who see the top, and skip to the bottom:
    TL,DR: It doesn't matter class, spec, or role, EVERYONE who plays well should be thanked, whether they become a better player or not, they'll at least continue habits that make it easier for the next people who play with them. I promise that 90% of the time, you'll get a compliment in return, and everybody loves that .
    85 paladin Prot/Holy, 85 warlock Destro/Affliction, 85 priest Holy/Disc, 85 druid Feral/Resto, 85 shaman Resto/Enhancement, 85 rogue Combat/Combat, 85 mage Fire/Arcane, 85 death knight Blood/Frost, 85 warrior Prot/Arms, 85 hunter Surv/BM.

    My name is Citaxis, and I'm an altoholic. My first step is admitting I have a problem. I even have the addon.

  17. #257

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Okay, I'm going to bring up a point here that seems to be mostly ignored: the meaning of 'chain pulling' can be different between people.

    Chain pulling does not have a set in stone definition that means... well, any specific thing. Meaning that it is not required to literally 'never' leave combat in an instance in order to chain pull. The tank does not have to pull the next group of mobs while the remnants of the first are still attacking him in order to chain pull.

    Honestly, as melee dps it annoys the living daylights out of me when tanks run that way. Still, I don't bother saying anything about it to them because it's, presumably, just the way they like to tank. Heck, I even have a guildie tank who does it all the time, but I'm not going to give her flak for it. Sure it's a bit annoying, but to each their own.

    Having said that though, no, that's not the way I pull on my tank, but yes, I do chain pull by moving continuously from one group to the next as each is downed, meaning everything dies before my feet move. The only exception to this is in situations similar to the paths before the first boss in HoL, where individual Iron Dwarves aren't linked to anything else. So sure, I'll snag them and bring them into the next group, where the fight will actually start.

    Maybe a little off the original topic of the threat, but it's a simple point. Not everyone works the same way, nor do they have to.

  18. #258

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    I agree with the OP and would like to add one thing. I think the LFG tool should give priority to pure DPS classes over hybrids. A pure DPS class doesn't have the choice to shorten their queue time, they can only fill one roll. Hybrids have the option to tank or heal, they just choose not to.

  19. #259

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400
    I agree with the OP and would like to add one thing. I think the LFG tool should give priority to pure DPS classes over hybrids. A pure DPS class doesn't have the choice to shorten their queue time, they can only fill one roll. Hybrids have the option to tank or heal, they just choose not to.
    or ya know, dont have the gear to

    i heard lvling as healing is boring as hell
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitingisfun
    Hallo huter . good is 2 now ther is hunter woh playd till vanilla . i haved warr 2 but i was bored lol . i aso reed alot moore much forums but i writ so dab enlish i caus breein dmg to peoplol i beter just reed an wathcs i no writ point less posts an topics but mein ting is that peopl under tsand wat u writ .
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius
    It's like reading a slowly evolving train wreck.

  20. #260

    Re: How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Citaxis


    Tanking is an especially thankless job, since the majority of the time everybody just comes in, does the instance, and leaves without saying a word, or somebody does something stupid and then complains at the tank for not handling it. Tell me, all of you, when was the last time YOU thanked a tank?

    I thank every tank that can hold aggro ;D
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mannoroth&cn=Chimaria

    People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

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