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  1. #21

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    *shrug* All of my guilds 10 man groups have used a soaker for their first kill and non have had any deaths by a few vile spirits slipping by. Most DPS can be hit by 2-3 and live without an issue and they move so slowly that shielding someone before it hits them is easy. Raid-shielding is a waste of time in P3.

  2. #22

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    *shrug* All of my guilds 10 man groups have used a soaker for their first kill and non have had any deaths by a few vile spirits slipping by. Most DPS can be hit by 2-3 and live without an issue and they move so slowly that shielding someone before it hits them is easy. Raid-shielding is a waste of time in P3.
    I stopped taking you seriously after seeing this.

  3. #23

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinaki
    our healers at current - Paldin / Druid / Holyp

    Only managed to reach p2 at moment, not really a healer issue ( just understanding the fight ) from all perspectives, holy seems to be strong on this fight in terms of numbers for me.

    Is it worth speccing Disc, or just change my holy build to be more 10man orientated.

    Thanks any advice welcome !
    theres no reason to be holy in ICC , ever. preshielding people is superior to raid healing after the damage is taken anyway. you can plug enough emergency holes with renew and mending that the raid healing becomes irrelevant with PWShield.

    the 4 piece bonus getting fixed , the fix to the pwshield glyph now working with trauma and the icc strength of wrynn buff to absorbs makes disc blatantly superior to holy in every way. not to mention the bonuses disc provides in general.


    For a direct answer to the question disc is about a million times better than holy for the LK encounter specifically. As disc 1 shield will completely negate infest for the entire encounter for anyone you pre-shield. Go watch some youtube videos of a disc priest doing LK 10 or 25 and watch how they just spam PWShield on the entire raid and throw out some mendings / renews / penance on tank here and there.
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  4. #24

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Revitalize
    I stopped taking you seriously after seeing this.
    Couldn't care less. Just makes you another in a long line of Disc Priests who think raid shielding is the perfect strategy for everything and that their job is some mystical 'raid support' role, when they're really just a healer and all healers are raid support. Sorry, but healing P3 and saving shields for when you know they'll be useful is more important than absent minded raid shielding. It's much more important that the Harvest target doesn't have WS than it is to throw out 10 shields and hope that more than 1-2 are going to be used. Also many wasted GCDs that could have been spent tank healing. Disc is better than Holy in P3 because Disc is a better tank healer, not because of raid shields.

  5. #25

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Couldn't care less. Just makes you another in a long line of Disc Priests who think raid shielding is the perfect strategy for everything and that their job is some mystical 'raid support' role, when they're really just a healer and all healers are raid support. Sorry, but healing P3 and saving shields for when you know they'll be useful is more important than absent minded raid shielding. It's much more important that the Harvest target doesn't have WS than it is to throw out 10 shields and hope that more than 1-2 are going to be used. Also many wasted GCDs that could have been spent tank healing. Disc is better than Holy in P3 because Disc is a better tank healer, not because of raid shields.
    every single guild and disc priest that has killed LK disagrees. you are dead wrong and too stubborn to acknowledge LOGIC. have fun
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  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury
    Bubble spamming is currently the most effective and useful way for a Disc Priest to heal ICC.

  7. #27
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    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    I would say go for it. Yesterday we tried LK 10 without a disc priest for the first time, our other healers where not amused.

    Disc priests rock at this fight.

    Edit: post # 100
    Forget everything you know about everything.

  8. #28

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinaki
    Is it worth speccing Disc, or just change my holy build to be more 10man orientated.
    Nah holy is fine, rolling renews and coh makes normal mode infest a non factor.

    Heroic may very well need a disc priest, but I found normal much easier as holy.

  9. #29

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    There are plenty of raids with no Disc Priests that have killed him. This is about 10N. Spirits do crap damage and Infest only does 6-7k max which means even a HoT tick cancels the debuff. Raid shielding is not required at any point on 10N. 10N can be 2 healed without much issue with 1 Pally, 1 Resto Druid. :

    As I said before: Holy is better in P2 and transitions. P2 and transitions are much harder than P3.

  10. #30

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    All arguing aside of what the best role for a Disc priest is, it seems to me that the combination of holy and disc priest offers great synergy. We'll prolly combine that with our holy pally and give it a shot on sunday.

    Thanks for the help
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  11. #31

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    There are plenty of raids with no Disc Priests that have killed him. This is about 10N. Spirits do crap damage and Infest only does 6-7k max which means even a HoT tick cancels the debuff. Raid shielding is not required at any point on 10N. 10N can be 2 healed without much issue with 1 Pally, 1 Resto Druid. :

    As I said before: Holy is better in P2 and transitions. P2 and transitions are much harder than P3.
    You may think its crap damage, but you have no idea how their phases are going.
    Just because youve easily killed the encounter now doesnt mean other people struggle and need the advantage of another spec.
    If spirits do crap damage, then that would advocate shielding even more as it could ABSORB nearly all the damage that the person got exploded for.

  12. #32

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Revitalize
    You may think its crap damage, but you have no idea how their phases are going.
    Just because youve easily killed the encounter now doesnt mean other people struggle and need the advantage of another spec.
    If spirits do crap damage, then that would advocate shielding even more as it could ABSORB nearly all the damage that the person got exploded for.
    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Just makes you another in a long line of Disc Priests who think raid shielding is the perfect strategy for everything and that their job is some mystical 'raid support' role, when they're really just a healer and all healers are raid support.
    I like it when harky makes my posts for me.
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  13. #33

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    I like it when harky makes my posts for me.
    im lost , his post makes no sense so you quote it and agree , awesome. not worth further arguing if you have 1 priest for the LK encounter he/she should be speccd disc , period. anyone trying to counter argue is splitting hairs. BUT YOU CAN DO IT AS HOLY. thats fine , hell i could probably do it 0/0/0 or in my shadow spec but that doesnt make it right , and that isnt the question he asked. Disc is the superior spec for the LK encounter by a long shot.
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  14. #34

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    If you're playing the spam-shield, though, it's not "better by a long shot". It's better for its versatility in switching off a tank to back on in the blink of an eye (faster than even Paladins can make the switch, let alone Druids/Shaman).

    The first post also puts up this:
    our healers at current - Paldin / Druid / Holyp

    Only managed to reach p2 at moment, not really a healer issue ( just understanding the fight ) from all perspectives, holy seems to be strong on this fight in terms of numbers for me.

    Is it worth speccing Disc, or just change my holy build to be more 10man orientated.
    If it's not a healer issue, then why change what isn't broken? Holy's more than capable of healing it. That's the point. Infest doesn't hit hard enough on Normal to justify spam shielding. It's quite managable from just about anything, especially on 10-man.

    Vile Spirits need control, not buffers.

    The first Priest in any run should be whatever the frak they enjoy playing. Period. Discipline is not required for pretty much anything that 90% of the posters here are going to see anyways.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  15. #35

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    No one said it was required.
    I just said it makes the boss much easier for your first try at him.
    Either way I gave my advice, whether he takes it for a grain of salt or not.

  16. #36

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    im just curious but have either kelesti or harky actually killed LK in 10 or 25. legit question theres only 1 kelesti on either the US or europian wow armory so unless your character are under different name, you havent killed LK on 10 or 25.
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  17. #37

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    There are reasons I don't make my armory public. Why would I be stupid enough to put my character name as my avatar name?

    That hurt ~ Ultima
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  18. #38

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    I do not use the name 'harky' in WoW. I've never had a character named 'harky', though I have had a substantial number using the actual character name that I took 'harky' from. Let's just say I could even get a cantrip to backfire.

    I also value my privacy. If you'd rather try to argue against me personally there isn't much I can do for you. My guilds logs are private and I could care less about forum-goers opinions of me. If you have a problem with anything being said then you should really evaluate the arguments being made.

    The point is this: In 10N it takes a Disc Priest 8 seconds to shield the non-tanks in preparation for Infest. This means that 40% of your time is spent covering Infest. Compare this to a Holy Priest who spends 3-4 seconds to achieve the same result. Only 20% of their time. In Phase transitions raid shielding is an okay amount of healing, but it again is a low exchange of time to output. Holy handles the transition phase much better with their AOE throughput. Phase 2 you introduce Defile, which Holy handles extremely well by pre-shielding the Defile target so that they can move them further to the sides. Disc shines a bit with PS for Reaper, but GS winds up being better due to the glyph making it available very frequently. Continuing to P3 sees even more GS usage as it gives you a cooldown for every single Harvest cooldown. B&S winds up being great again for repositioning LK and speeding the soaker. Disc does better in this phase purely because it's 90%+ tank healing and Disc is just plain better at it. Raid shielding here is definitely not the answer, instead opting to burst heal Harvest targets and save shields for the Soaker and for the targets of Spirits who slip by.

    Again: Disc wins P3, Holy wins P1-2 and transitions. P3 is by far the easiest part of the encounter and Holy isn't bad at it, only worse due to lack of tank healing. The hardest part of the fight, and the part the OP was struggling with is P2. Holy is much better for fixing those issues because Holy deals with Infest much faster and without a shield-spammer around can supply a speed boost to all Defile targets.

    This is the same stupid debate people have been trying to pass off since Ulduar. Disc was good back then due to tank healing, not raid shielding. Raid shielding came in on Algalon due to star collapses. Disc then 'blew up' and became a 'must have' because of a simple misconception. Meters make Disc look very consistently good on all fights because they do not properly register shields. Disc can put out massive numbers on meters and 'show off' in this way. The fact is unless you're preventing fatal, unhealable damage a shield or a heal makes little difference. It is not better to prevent damage than to heal it unless preventing the damage also prevents a death directly. In 25 man Disc is required for LK. On hard modes Disc is strongly encouraged. In 10N? Infest hits about as hard as a damage aura tick. The fight is 2 healable and is about coordination, not massive raid damage like Algalon, or Anub. Specifically for the 10 man normal version of the fight Disc actually makes the fight more complicated than it needs to be by requiring you to single target 'heal' something which is easily managed by AOE heals.

    The best 'first kill' healer setup would be Pally/Druid/Holy Priest. Paladin is taken due to requiring large amounts of healing on both tanks in transitions, phase 1 and phase 3. Druid is taken because they're the dominant raid healers and second best tank healers. Holy Priest is taken due to the ability to quickly remove Infest and give people speed boosts for Defile. Priest/Druid are also used to supply mana boosts to the Paladin who can be given an Innervate during Hymn, then immediately use Plea to refund virtually their entire mana bar. My first 10 man kill came after my first 25 man kill and due to 25 man we originally did it with a Disc Priest. After having him die extremely early to Plague and then noticing that the healers managed Infest with no issues we switched the Priest to Holy. GS and B&S were absolutely clutch in that kill. My Priest's group then followed suit, putting me as Holy instead of Disc and had similar results. Infest was easy to manage, B&S made Defile a joke and GS on all Harvest targets was extremely nice. Second best setup is most likely Pally/Shaman/Druid for Mana Tide.

    In any case I'm done with the topic, the OP got the help he wanted.

  19. #39
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    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Thanks for your help again Harky, I value your imput very highly and you've helped me on multiple occasions

    YOU, JUST MAKE SENSE.

    Please lock this down Keletsi

  20. #40

    Re: Worth speccing Disc for LK? 10man

    Done.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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