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  1. #281

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    God I have been waiting so long for this Blizz!! I am crying sweet tears of joy

  2. #282

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    I hope they keep the presences the same as they are now, just so that Blood specs never use blood presence, Frost specs never use frost presence, and no one ever uses unholy presence.
    It'll be one more red flag to look out for to tell if you're dealing with a regular DK, or a competent one.

    "It turns out the only signature he needed was my fist! ... But with a pen in it ... that i was signing with."

  3. #283

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    I can't believe it, am I dreaming?

    I love that change.

    Blood since level 55, blood forever, I rolled the DK to tank (hell why would I roll a melee dps in a world where melee dps are abundant like sand on a desert), and I loved the self-healing of blood, the thing that I missed in the warrior class so much.

    From my first Ramparts run I had to endure all those "you can't tank as blood" "you oughta respec frost", being refused invites to stuff like normal UK or Gundrak because "DKs are noobs and blood is for dps". But I endured. I made my way into tanking, if 5 groups refused me a spot, I found 6th which would give me a chance.

    Later on, when Blood was already accepted tank spec, I was still encountering people telling me I can't
    - tank heroic HOR as blood, mate, impossible, you need frost to hold aoe aggro here
    - kite rotface slimes as blood
    - "don't tell me you gonna tank Toravon as blood?", from rogue, oh yeah lol, true story

    To all you "frost is tank tree, blood is for dps, respec frost to tank" people:


    Only makes me wonder which stance are they gonna take on 2h vs. dual wield tanking? Keep both viable or kill one?

  4. #284

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Really really not happy with this change to be honest, i love playing Blood as DPS. Unholy was just as enjoyable for me.

    Ah well might as well get used to it, though that doesn't mean i have to like it :-\

  5. #285

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    I completely understand the reasoning behind these changes. DK talents really are a pain in the arse, it requires a lot more investigation into builds then others who just stick to specific talent trees (For the most part anyway). With the passive bonuses, it would just get worse.

    But seriously, I'm going to have to relearn both of my specs in Cataclysm, pretty much entirely. I DPS as Blood, which won't be possible, and tank in Frost, which also won't be possible. I know other classes are having major changes done to their talents...but it isn't like being forced out of your preferred specs.

    I know people like blood for the self healing, but really, blood is a very effective DPS, as is unholy. Frost...not so much, from what I've seen. Why couldn't they just take the not-so-good Frost and make it a complete tank spec?

    Hopefully they can make it up to us blood DPS by showing off new and interesting unholy/frost talents.

  6. #286

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrannoTitan
    Why couldn't they just take the not-so-good Frost and make it a complete tank spec?
    Or rather make frost really good dual wield dps spec, a big come back of "rogue in plate"?

    I don't dual wield, I dislike that playstyle, but it's a shame for people who enjoy it how it was treated like an unloved step-child.

    Makes me only wonder what about dual wield tanking, will they abandon the idea or give blood choice between dual wield and 2h tanking? Well, I hope they won't make dual wield tanking the only option instead.

    I also never understood since 3.0 why frost was supposed to be a tanking tree?
    It had emphasis on:
    - spell damage
    - aoe
    - crits
    - dual wield
    - slowing and cc
    All of those was screaming to me "melee version of a frost mage" and I expected it to be directed towards pvp dps, which it really wasn't... shame.

    Also actually back then in 3.0 frost was rumoured to be "THE tank spec" while it was the weakest of all 3, unholy was king of aoe threat with the old unholy blight and other tools, and also had much more toughness with stuff like stamina from shadow of death.

    So sad to see how unholy tanks got shafted because "they were too OP on sarth +3" they got nerfed to the ground.

  7. #287

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    gay i already use blood to tank but i use it to dps too its my favorite dps spec
    "Now I stand, the lion before the lambs, and they do not fear.* They can not fear."

  8. #288
    Blademaster Inveigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by wbeck85
    What if they kept Dancing Rune Weapon, but changed its function to something more like "Increases the summoner's chance to parry by (arbitrary)%."
    Keeping in mind that in Cataclysm, a 100% chance to parry will still only mean a 50% reduction in damage, an ability such as this would actually only be as about effective as a standard Shield Block (physical attacks only).

    If damage reduction is too boring of a talent, maybe the summoned runeblade could behave more like a pet for its brief period with an option to be used as the defensive cooldown mentioned above OR have a whirlwind attach function that would strike the nearest (arbitrary number) targets for (arbitrary % of weapon damage) every (arbitrary) seconds.

    This is the kind of thing Blizzard loves, as it is yet another decision that makes tanking more exciting AND makes the talent incredibly versatile. You could use the ability to save your life, as a threat boost in a DPS race or to get control of a messy AOE situation. How more perfect could that be?

    AND here's another thing. If the Dancing Rune Weapon acts like a pet with a pet bar with only the two abilities(sharing a cooldown) It would be the visual cue to everyone in the raid that YOU are the tank. Just like you can visually tell that the Warrior with the SHIELD, or the druid with the big BEAR BUTT is the tank, the DK with the big nasty axe floating around next to him is the tank. If you think about it, DKs are the only tanking class that don't give any constant visual indicators of being a tank.

    The Dancing Rune Weapon as a pet concept would also solve the problem of having to go through two steps for an ability that would often be used at a moment's notice. Instead of 1. Summoning Runeweapon & 2. Activating function, you would only have to hit "Parry!" or "Whirlwind"

    OK, wow, that went on alot longer than I expected. The ideas kept flowing. Anyway. to Summarize:

    Keep Dancing Rune Weapon as last tier talent in Blood(Tanking) tree.
    Dancing Rune Weapon functions as an ever-present pet. (Would prevent summoning of Ghoul, as a pet doesn't actually serve much function for a tank)
    Dancing Rune Weapon would have a defensive(parry boost) ability and an offensive (Whirlwind) ability that share a cooldown.

    Thats it folks. Class Development is fun!
    This is actually a REALLY cool idea.
    "For the first time in your life, open your eyes, open your mind."

  9. #289

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    It would be easy to make the switch in presences. Some minor tweaking and make the changes fit the tree. This is my guess:

    Blood Presence - Health Return. Armor Bonus. Uncrittable. Like Frost presence but you lose the stamina for the health return.

    Improved Blood Presence - Probably where the stamina will be along with usual benefits. The reason to put the stamina in the talent is for PvP reasons.

    Frost Presence - Current Unholy Presence. Fits frost's new role really well with the emphasis on Haste. It will need the 1 sec GCD as it's going to be spammy otherwise.

    Improved Frost Presence - Same as Improved Unholy Presence.

    Unholy Presence - Magic damage bonus. Emphasizes Unholy's strength in magic and diseases. Probably balanced so only Unholy would use it but they wouldn't use Frost either.

    We find out in two days.
    Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
    Martin Luther King Jr.

  10. #290
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Helsinki, Finland

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Thank you Blizzard for ruining my DPS tree.

  11. #291

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    omg Heart strike spam FTL lol, about time....

  12. #292

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by wooshiewoo
    If you use pestilence and howling blast instead of blood strike and obliterate in your single target dps rotations, your doing it wrong.
    Then why even bring up the subject of Cleave int he first place if single-target was the Concern?

  13. #293

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Didn't see that coming too,I'm Blood DPS speced and I love that spec,now that in Cataclysm will be gone I'll probably go to Frost DW since I hate the Unholy playing style.
    Fun>Max capable DPS for me.

  14. #294

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Stacia
    Thank you Blizzard for ruining my DPS tree.
    Lolwut? The fuck you not using an Unholy tree for? You should be whining if they got rid of Unholy if all you care about is DPS.

  15. #295
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Hickville, Indiana

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    That's honestly why they had to do it. DK's effectively had 6 trees (every tree was viable in DPS and Tanking). Not to make it sound ranty, but that's kind of bullshit to the other classes. Taking out PvP/PvE bullcrap (Tank is tank, DPS is DPS, pvp talents won't change that), it's honestly something that needed to be done, to help DK's as well. No wonder DK's got their bad stereotype...they leveled 80 and were told they could tank or DPS no matter tree they went with. It's just stupid.
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  16. #296

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    I like this concept

  17. #297

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    will make tanking much easier providing the add some sort of AoE threat generation found in blood i had a hard time with groups compared to frost where groups were much easier to mantain!

  18. #298

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythagoreant
    This sounds like something a high-end raid DK tank would like, but people with DK alts who don't try to min-max and just play what's fun for them will NOT like. I belong in the latter category, and am very sad to see frost tanking die.
    I am with you on that boat, cheer up mate. On the other hand i totally see why they are asking for tank tree. Too bad it was so complicated to have both in one tree (balance, tools, ...).

  19. #299

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    this really makes me sad. i liked the ability to have any spec viable for both tanking and dpsing. im tired of all the classes having one cookie cutter spec for every roll. as a DK, especially recently, you could choose from 3 dif specs for dps, and a few for tanking as well. sure some specs were better than others, but at least they were viable and if you were a good player you could do well with any reasonable spec.

  20. #300

    Re: Death Knights will tank as Blood in Cataclysm

    Death Knights had the most variety out of any class in the game. They're able to take a look at all three trees and do two distinct roles within each. This made the ultimate class for people that like to switch it up constantly. The removal of this variety will not hurt the game, but it will hurt the class's potential to be more enjoyable. I don't like this change, and it seems like the wrong direction the game should be going in. With that said, I hadn't planned on returning to Cataclysm as a Death Knight anyway. This kind of homogenization doesn't make me want to return at all.

    I say this not because I previously played a Death Knight, but because I feel anyone should be able to pick a class and play how they choose within it's limits. One may argue that they are simply switching those limits around, but to that I would suggest the verb constricting. If they view this as a success, future classes and tree modifications will be constricted as well. While this will ultimately provide an easier game to balance, it will yield too many classes that feel similar or stale.

    A good game can't attain balance by flicking a light switch. I'm just going to hope they revoke this change and backwards thinking before they dumb down this game too much.
    Jaime the Famous Warlock. Ravenholdt-US, reppin' my hood.

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