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  1. #1
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    [OLD] Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Feel free to post an information or discussion on Holy Paladin changes below.

    As always, you can revert back to the Cataclysm Change Log for a complete list of changes currently in development.

  2. #2

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    I hope they don't change all that much. However I'd like blizz to give us better ways to handle raid healing other than machine-gunning FoL, but not the the extent as a resto druid.

  3. #3

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    I'm the opposite, I really don't want much more than a single long CD raid heal. I don't like raid healing, I like tank healing, it's why I'm a paladin.

    I know my hopes are in vain, but I'm very happy (aside from itemisation) about where holy paladins are right now.

    I sense a fix to a problem that isn't there is around the corner.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  4. #4

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowdream
    I'm the opposite, I really don't want much more than a single long CD raid heal. I don't like raid healing, I like tank healing, it's why I'm a paladin.

    I know my hopes are in vain, but I'm very happy (aside from itemisation) about where holy paladins are right now.

    I sense a fix to a problem that isn't there is around the corner.
    I couldnt agree with you more =/ I love tank healing i mean were paladins thats what we do.. if you wanna go raid healing. Re-roll a druid, priest or something.

    What i would like to see is someting else that we can do to improve our tank healing... yeah we fill health back up but i want something more like how preists have that thing(dont remember what it was called) that would increase the healing received to the target.. i posted two ideas in the other pally idea forum but didnt get to much of a response so here tell me what you think

    Divine Radiance Cooldown: 45 sec

    Casts a shield of radiance on a raid/party member and when ever that target absorbs X damage(havent decided how much) the person the person spues(cant think of a better word) with divine radiance healing them selves and up to 5 other raid/party members within 10yd for X amount (havent thought about the amount healed either, guess could base on amount of SP)........... kindof cool gives us a new healing ability keeping us in our tank healing spot and does a little bit of raid healing.. so people stop bitching.

    next one.....

    Light Within (talent in the holy tree)

    Each time you heal a target with one of your healing spells, you give the target Light Within which gives the target a buff that decreases the amount of damage they take by 3% stacking up to 3 times.

    i like it gives our healing spells something else beneficial then just giving health back.

    Now mind you i didnt make these with the thought of pvp in mind... so i dont know if these are balanced or not =/

  5. #5

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Hey Holy Pally be ready. I believe the reason we last is because we are the prototype for Blizzard's new Melee Stat Caster system.

    If so,
    You all will be rolling on Melee Plate instead of Caster gear like before. This is a Major change, and something new not done before for other classes. Druid for example require Forms to handle their stat system.

    We wont have this.

    BE READY!!!

  6. #6

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tro
    Hey Holy Pally be ready. I believe the reason we last is because we are the prototype for Blizzard's new Melee Stat Caster system.
    Oh god please stop asking for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I [opinion] [cataclysm feature] and you should to. Anything who disagrees with me that [cataclysm feature] is [opinion] is a big [insult].
    I asked all of my friends and they all agreed with me that [cataclysm feature] is as [opinion] as it is possible to be.
    Blizzard are so [opinion], what [compliment/insult]s they all are!

    There, now we can stop posting new topics in the Cataclysm forum altogether.
    And if you disagree with me you're an [insult].

  7. #7

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Copain
    Oh god please stop asking for this.
    GET READY BUDDY

    We going to be the First!!!
    Paladins get up.

    We are going to be the first Prototype for the Healer in Melee Gear concept.
    Well thats my speculation not fact just yet. We will see on the 16

    FOR THE SILVERHAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #8

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Are you a huntard Tro?

    And I really like the splash healing on a Shield. We already have a lot of shields in our arsenal. I'd like to stay away form mitigation healing. Thats a Disc Priest thing. Be cool if they looked more into health transfer/redirection.

    I'l like to see Glyph of Holy Light tacked onto all of our heals, but reduced the number of target hit.

  9. #9

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    I'm not in favor of melee stat caster gear, but I always thought it'd be pretty funny if there was a melee range healing spell. It'd have to be so OP we'd risk getting cleaved by bosses to cast it sometimes... a literal "lay on hands"... that would really put us forward as front-line healers. Not necessarily fun, but funny lol

  10. #10

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepencil
    I'm not in favor of melee stat caster gear, but I always thought it'd be pretty funny if there was a melee range healing spell. It'd have to be so OP we'd risk getting cleaved by bosses to cast it sometimes... a literal "lay on hands"... that would really put us forward as front-line healers. Not necessarily fun, but funny lol
    Only works on players below level 18
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I [opinion] [cataclysm feature] and you should to. Anything who disagrees with me that [cataclysm feature] is [opinion] is a big [insult].
    I asked all of my friends and they all agreed with me that [cataclysm feature] is as [opinion] as it is possible to be.
    Blizzard are so [opinion], what [compliment/insult]s they all are!

    There, now we can stop posting new topics in the Cataclysm forum altogether.
    And if you disagree with me you're an [insult].

  11. #11

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Another thing we could have that could be an interesting healing mechanic would be a channeling heal.
    For example, we target the MT and begin channeling this Devout Prayer. It ticks like a reverse warlock's CoA, healing for more the longer you keep it uninterrupted. The amount would be something like starting from less than a FoL to almost a HL at the end. An added mechanic would be that during the channeling phase, you can choose to snap off a Holy Light (on other targets within range) as an instant cast. The condition could be that you would need to have channeled the prayer for at least 2 seconds before the insta-HL buff kicks in. Of course the channeling would be interrupted, and the benefit of the ending ticks lost.

    On another note, I've always liked the idea of a healing consecration as well... too bad its kinda hard to implement. Heal for too little and its pretty pointless... Heal for too much and raids might just stack holy pallies. I have this image of a 25man raid with 6 holy pallies doing the healing consecrate and everyone is just stacked inside the circle lol

  12. #12

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Ok, first let me state that I am really happy with where Holy Pallies are right now. I like our role and I am praying that they don't change the class too much.

    Firstly, I'm pretty convinced that we will get a mid-sized heal as Shaman did. I see them see them giving us a heal costing somewhere around 700 mana (using current numbers) and healing for around 9k (again, using current numbers assuming FoL around 5k and HL around 13.5k unbuffed). I'm not sure where it will fit in though, given that FoL is a 1.0 second cast and HL is ~1.3 seconds currently. Maybe they will make Light's Grace effect this new heal instead of Holy Light in an attempt to spread the cast times a bit?

    Secondly, I think Blizzard really wants to add a few new spells to each class/spec so I see them giving us some sort of quasi raid heal. I think Holy Pallies would be best suited by a direct heal that splashes a la Glyph of Holy Light. Maybe something like a spell that heals its main target for around 10k (current numbers) and smart healing 5 others for half the amount with a cast time around 1.5 secs after haste and buffs. This would fit our role of tank healer as it wouldn't have too big of an effect on our ability to keep a tank up (reasonable cast speed and still heals a main target) while giving us a bit of raid utility. Of course it would have to either have a short cooldown or cost a lot of mana to prevent it from becoming our main heal. Another idea to give us a bit more raid-heal-viability would be to let us beacon two targets at one time (both tanks) and spam the raid, but that would be way overpowered hah.

    Edit: Broke up the wall of text a bit.

  13. #13

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    I predict a series of terrible changes that leave us in worse of a position than shaman were for the first half of the expansion.

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord
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    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Korhi
    I hope they don't change all that much. However I'd like blizz to give us better ways to handle raid healing other than machine-gunning FoL, but not the the extent as a resto druid.
    From what's been said...single target healing is being nerfed, while raid healing will be buffed.

    I'd expect BoL to be nerefd, if not removed. Perhaps only 50% healing is transferred. If they keep it, I'd like it to be moved higher in the tree and a new effect added to help justify the "Beacon" title....maybe a radiance effect of some sort.

    EJL

  15. #15

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen
    From what's been said...single target healing is being nerfed, while raid healing will be buffed.

    I'd expect BoL to be nerefd, if not removed. Perhaps only 50% healing is transferred. If they keep it, I'd like it to be moved higher in the tree and a new effect added to help justify the "Beacon" title....maybe a radiance effect of some sort.

    EJL
    How exactly do you make the 51 talent point endgame holy talent, higher in the talent tree?
    Armour is no protection against the blessed tools of the righteous

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord
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    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Applegarth
    How exactly do you make the 51 talent point endgame holy talent, higher in the talent tree?
    Turn the tree upside down.

    Would it have helped if I'd said lower?

    EJL

  17. #17

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    I predict:

    -They'll come up with some stupid, clunky way to strip us of plate armor or worse yet force us into melee dps plate.

    -We'll lose beacon (which easily destroys the only thing that made us stronger tank healers) so that they can let the other healers tank heal as effectively. This will not make up for the fact that...

    -...They'll give us one token multitarget heal (READ: "ONE") that will be talented, affect 1-3 people,on a CD that won't bring us anywhere even remotely close to the Priests, Druids, and Shaman when it comes to AoE healing with the tools they have NOW let alone the one's they'll be getting in Cataclysm.

    -They'll change Divine Plea so that it doesn't scale off manapool size (making it the weakest regen tool). But of course the 50% healing penalty will stay.

    -If we get a HoT it will be limited to one target at a time.

    -They will find some way to further nerf Divine Shield like they've done every 6 months since I started playing this game. I can't even fathom what they could do to make it any worse but some how they'll find a way to make it happen.

    -SOMETHING will get forebearance added to it but naturally right after they announce forebearance now lasts 3 minutes.

    -We still won't get a reliable nuke for leveling/questing/pvp. What little damage we will do will go down further as they spend much of the beta and first patch making heavy-handed nerfs to all our damage abilities because somehow Ret and Prot will end up doing too much damage with them. I do love that my Judgements at 80 are hitting for less than they did at 70 even though I have 3x the spellpower + 10 levels.

    -We will still be vulnerable to single school lockout.

    -They will find some way to nerf Illumination again (see Divine Shield analogy earlier) only to turn right around and try to shoehorn crit back into the spec (see last Blizzcon's screenshot of the Paladin Talent window and the +Crit Heal Value Mastery listing at the bottom of the Holy Tree).

    -There will probably be some new clunky mechanic involving babysitting another minute duration buff.

    -They will see how everyone loves Healing Rain and try to emulate that in Consecrate but fail miserably. It will be an complete disaster.

    -2 of our 3 new abilities from 81-85 will be tanking/ret tools but not something Holy could ever take advantage of.

    -They will nerf Seal of Wisdom and Seal of Light STILL won't do anything worthwhile unless glyphed.

    -They'll remove GoHL but will (as in the third prediction above) try to shoehorn it back in as a talent somewhere. Except now it's coupled to the heal we are likely to NEVER use after all the regen nerfs.

    .-They will try something with Lay on Hands but nothing that will handle the issues with the CD or Forebearance. It also won't scale with HP (making it a 20 minute cooldown Holy Shock).

    And lastly because I've gotten to watch this for almost three betas now, the Cata Beta Forums will look something like this:

    Devs: "We'd like to hear some feedback from the various classes and roles"

    Paladin Community: "We would like to have more tools as well as the option to be viable raid healers"

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "You're a Paladin. If you wanted more tools or to raidheal then you shouldn't have rolled a Paladin"

    Paladin Community: "We feel it would better prepare us for what's ahead. A craftsman can not work with a hammer alone".

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: *FOAMS AT THE MOUTH*

    Devs: "We'd like to keep with the original design of Paladins where they are strong singl- target healers. We also want to keep the limited toolkit design because we know that there's SOMEONE out there that doesn't want any new abilities and would be sadface if we gave them any... maybe.... possibly."

    Devs: *Buffs the single target healing abilities of Priests Druids and Shaman*

    Devs: *Sees that the other classes are filling in for Paladins but never the reverse*

    Devs: *Find some lopsided way to prop up Healadins with either stupidly-strong single target healing or OP Mana regen around the middle of the expansion*

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "Paladins are too strong in the area of <insert something here>! It makes them better single target healers! Fix (ie: "Nerf") it!

    <repeat during next expansion>

  18. #18

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeau
    I predict:

    -They'll come up with some stupid, clunky way to strip us of plate armor or worse yet force us into melee dps plate.

    -We'll lose beacon (which easily destroys the only thing that made us stronger tank healers) so that they can let the other healers tank heal as effectively. This will not make up for the fact that...

    -...They'll give us one token multitarget heal (READ: "ONE") that will be talented, affect 1-3 people,on a CD that won't bring us anywhere even remotely close to the Priests, Druids, and Shaman when it comes to AoE healing with the tools they have NOW let alone the one's they'll be getting in Cataclysm.

    -They'll change Divine Plea so that it doesn't scale off manapool size (making it the weakest regen tool). But of course the 50% healing penalty will stay.

    -If we get a HoT it will be limited to one target at a time.

    -They will find some way to further nerf Divine Shield like they've done every 6 months since I started playing this game. I can't even fathom what they could do to make it any worse but some how they'll find a way to make it happen.

    -SOMETHING will get forebearance added to it but naturally right after they announce forebearance now lasts 3 minutes.

    -We still won't get a reliable nuke for leveling/questing/pvp. What little damage we will do will go down further as they spend much of the beta and first patch making heavy-handed nerfs to all our damage abilities because somehow Ret and Prot will end up doing too much damage with them. I do love that my Judgements at 80 are hitting for less than they did at 70 even though I have 3x the spellpower + 10 levels.

    -We will still be vulnerable to single school lockout.

    -They will find some way to nerf Illumination again (see Divine Shield analogy earlier) only to turn right around and try to shoehorn crit back into the spec (see last Blizzcon's screenshot of the Paladin Talent window and the +Crit Heal Value Mastery listing at the bottom of the Holy Tree).

    -There will probably be some new clunky mechanic involving babysitting another minute duration buff.

    -They will see how everyone loves Healing Rain and try to emulate that in Consecrate but fail miserably. It will be an complete disaster.

    -2 of our 3 new abilities from 81-85 will be tanking/ret tools but not something Holy could ever take advantage of.

    -They will nerf Seal of Wisdom and Seal of Light STILL won't do anything worthwhile unless glyphed.

    -They'll remove GoHL but will (as in the third prediction above) try to shoehorn it back in as a talent somewhere. Except now it's coupled to the heal we are likely to NEVER use after all the regen nerfs.

    .-They will try something with Lay on Hands but nothing that will handle the issues with the CD or Forebearance. It also won't scale with HP (making it a 20 minute cooldown Holy Shock).

    And lastly because I've gotten to watch this for almost three betas now, the Cata Beta Forums will look something like this:

    Devs: "We'd like to hear some feedback from the various classes and roles"

    Paladin Community: "We would like to have more tools as well as the option to be viable raid healers"

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "You're a Paladin. If you wanted more tools or to raidheal then you shouldn't have rolled a Paladin"

    Paladin Community: "We feel it would better prepare us for what's ahead. A craftsman can not work with a hammer alone".

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: *FOAMS AT THE MOUTH*

    Devs: "We'd like to keep with the original design of Paladins where they are strong singl- target healers. We also want to keep the limited toolkit design because we know that there's SOMEONE out there that doesn't want any new abilities and would be sadface if we gave them any... maybe.... possibly."

    Devs: *Buffs the single target healing abilities of Priests Druids and Shaman*

    Devs: *Sees that the other classes are filling in for Paladins but never the reverse*

    Devs: *Find some lopsided way to prop up Healadins with either stupidly-strong single target healing or OP Mana regen around the middle of the expansion*

    Priest/Shaman/Druid Mafia: "Paladins are too strong in the area of <insert something here>! It makes them better single target healers! Fix (ie: "Nerf") it!

    <repeat during next expansion>
    Doubt it though.
    Maybe 4th time lucky that we're actually good until the last patch?
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  19. #19

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion

    Please Please Please leave Beacon alone..
    We dont stop playing because we grow old,
    We grow old because we stop playing

  20. #20

    Re: Holy Cataclysm Discussion



    Telling ya

    We getting the Melee Gear--->Heal concept. its going to be Tanking Defense gear that scale with out heals.

    Also like I suggested in the Protection tree thread,

    Our Conservation spell will be Ground Target now, and Heal ally and deal damage. So now we have a controlled AoE Heal.

    GET READY

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