Cataclysm Class Preview: Warrior

[whetherman]

Still not enough to make me want to roll one. Warriors, i am dissapoint.

[lilbandit]

gushing wounds OP in pvp

still no kind of heal. with reducing MS to 20%, they really have no excuse not to change enraged regeneration to something more useful.

[Kussensloop]

Y helo thar huntard.

/charge
/hamstring
/gushing wound
/bladestorm
-hunter tries to run
/intercept
-hunter tries to run
/heroic leap
-hunter tries to run
/repeat

Heroic leap shares cd

[aloís]

Oh my god.

Heroic Leap is just amazing, if it would WORK for once. The option between duel wielding 2-handers or 1-handers will make things viable. But the downside is to actually calculate how much DPS loss is gained by choosing 1-handed over 2-handed. I cried when I saw this, because I simply LOVE having quick blades.

The rage-regeneration plan looks simply awesome, to the fact that having 100-rage results in DPS gain and less rage loss. The gushing wound should be a PVP thing, I don't see it happen in raids unless there is a kiteboss.

A quick few words, and OMG TY FOR THE THREAT REDUCEMENT IN THE FURY TREE <3 Stacking Sunder Armor means doing DPS + Losing threat is godlike!

You do realise it says cost 50% MORE rage not LESS

[dino]

it would be so simple to turn heroic leap into a _useful_ skill, rather than a charge+tc combined with a new look.

blizzard obviously thinks only idiots play warriors, they say we are too dumb to charge+tc by ourselves. so they throw in the 'candy coating' heroic leap - a very disappointing skill for level 85.

why couldn't you make something cool, like upon landing make the earth shatter and when an enemy is hit by flying debris a debuff called 'concussion' is added that makes the one hit unable to target for x seconds. not as op as stun but still useful.

W: "dude, heroic leap sucks..."
GC: "uh oh?"
W: "it's basically just charge and thunderclap combined."
GC: "but you'll fly through the air!"
W: "still it's useless
GC: "but you'll fly through the air!"

[blupp]

really disappointing changes. wouldnt be surprised if heroic leap would not be implented, again. the vengeance stuff is good for peoplke that dont want to tank but rather see themselves as dps when being prot specced. this change will also apply to other tanking classes i guess so its more than ever stamina > all. the fleshtanks and mana suckers are back. why bother thinking when you are gemming? just make it understandable for people that dont give a f* about their character.

for that single handed dps. well some people wished for it but blizzard wont be able to balance it with dw two handers.

this really looks like blizzad didnt put much effort and thought into it.

[Disturbed]

i really hope they change the way rage/stance changing works. losing nearly all your rage when swapping stances is the reason i don't play my warrior. that and leveling one sucks when you have to stop to eat to regen hp after every few kills. same with rogue.

[Stings]

I probably gonna rage on Warrior's Gushing Blood many times as it will just keep refreshing and probably in the future is the best idea to just camp, giving them a root for 9 seconds. And if Fear or anything that makes you run or fly away gonna count as moving, then i don't wanna find a warrior and warlock in a dark corner of WSG. Heroic Leap isn't one of my worries but i think it's going to be fun to try it out, if they don't kick it off the game like Wotlk.


But seriusly Gushing Blood, i am going to rage on you

[evilgnomey]

would have preferred bleed damage as the arms mastery and kept the bonus swing thing to a talent.

[Revolias45]

Do you honestly believe that warriors need these abilities?.......

[Dementation]

To Hatryd



I didn't say rage wasn't a problem and we do have infinite of it as the fight gos on but is it that wrong? I have a 80 dk tank, 80 disc priest, 80 arcane mage and 80 rogue and i've never miss out on resorces on any of them on any ICC raid boss fight as of yet (only exception being the rogue were i sometime find myself waiting a sec or two)
As for the Inner Rage all i'm saying is that 50% more rage cost seems a bit harsh for +15% damage. Again i'm just guessing here since i've not seen how teh rage normalization will actuly do to rage regen. But they could of dome something like it reduces are GCD by .5sec so that would give us 2 extra yellow hit over 5 sec which will take away that axtra rage.

Gushing Wound:didn't say its crap, i'm just not sure if it'll be worth its cost of rage and a GCD to be really implemanted in any rotation aspecialy fury. Still to be seen. As for the pvp aspect of it, yes it'll stay on you for a while but when are u ever scared of a rend tick?

Heroic leap: all in all, for a lvl 85 skill they just fucking droped the ball. They could of made something so much better.

The 17% hit was a typo. It suposed to be 27% hit which is white hit cap.

If they dont change Bladestorm mechanics, yes it will affect it because at this moment it uses the WW mechanics. AE was alway intended to be one of are strong points, Even in BC on big trash pull I remember toppinng the dps charts especialy on fights like Hyjal.

The blood lust comment was a comparation of as of now. They gave Wars unique skill to half of the other classes and yet keeped the unique shit of other class to them only.

Furious Sundering: I dont know about you but the war tanks in my guild only use devastate to get the sunders on and refresh them, other then that they rarely use it (but might be because they're lazy), hell with this change i wouldn't be suprised if the only reason they have it is for sword and board. But with HS changes that might change they'll actuly start using it more often.

Weapons talents: Yes are 2nd tier mastery gives arp, but i highly doupt that it will give 100% arp and btw the mastery on gear will only affect your 3rd tier mastery (been said so when they explained mastery). So a little extra arp to get so ever closer to 100% wouldn't to bad now would it? Hell of a lot better then sword spec proc.
For someone that calling me out for my reading comprehension you dont read to good yourself, fury 2nd mastery is melee HASTE not melee crit.
I know that sword mastery will aply to all weapons when did i say it wasn't? All i said was that they keeped the worst of the 3 to give to all weapons.

As for 1h DW just look at other specs of other class, they cant balance them out, theres always one better then the other and ppl are always going to go for that which gives better numbers. It'll be the same here.

I'm not pissing razors for blits, i just find it stupid to change one of are skill exacly the same as an other skill we already have.

How is it not are style to blow shit up when we were the first to have a +crit damage that used to be double what it is now?

Every benefit of being enraged is increased. This includes doing more damage/healing/ etc. from abilities like Bloodrage, Death Wish, Enrage, Berserker Rage, and Enraged Regeneration.

This to me says that it will only increase the effect of which the enrage gives you, not give you extra of something it dosn't do.

If you read earlier posts Sub Spec masteries will stack with Main Spec masteries just more likely at a lower rate

Also of note, you only get one set of passive talent tree bonuses: the tree in which you’ve spent the most points. Sub-speccing in another tree will not net you those bonuses in addition

[Hatryd]

To Hatryd:

"Also of note, you only get one set of passive talent tree bonuses: the tree in which you’ve spent the most points. Sub-speccing in another tree will not net you those bonuses in addition"

copied from the shaman updates posted on the front page. If shamans aren't getting sub spec mastery bonuses, I'm sure this is how it will work for all classes - whichever tree you have the most in is the tree you get mastery bonuses from. You mentioned "sub spec" bonuses a couple times in your post which probably won't exist.

Also, I could have taken it wrong (though other people I've talked to seem to think the same thing) but I believe the way the Enrage mastery was worded it indicates that it will buff the ability's RESPECTIVE function, not giving a damage buff to each one. ie deathwish buffs damage more, enraged regen restores more hp, bloodrage gives more rage, etc. Being a preview and worded rather vaguely it's impossible to know for certain what is intended though.

Edit: decided to copy in the exact quote

"Enrage Intensity: Every benefit of being enraged is increased. This includes doing more damage/healing/ etc. from abilities like Bloodrage, Death Wish, Enrage, Berserker Rage, and Enraged Regeneration."

the phrase "every benefit" leads me to believe it is the seperate effects of these buffs that are increased. There's also nothing in there saying "enraged effects increase damage", "damage" is merely the first one listed off of the items that have the potential to be buffed, which clearly would refer to Deathwish.

Yeah I can agree with the Sub Spec masteries though it was mentioned at one point being able to reach at least the first if not 2nd tier of masteries and never have access to 2 t3 masteries. That update on the shaman forum was after I was long done looking at it and didn't even see it, so I'll give it that much.

As for Enrage Intensity, we're probably just reading it two different ways. You see "every benefit of" then a list of abilities. I see the words "every benefit of being enraged" but doesn't say enrages induced solely through the class and it's few effects. More along the lines of any enrage effect, of which there are more than a few. Then what follows (again to me) is a list which begins with "abilities *like*" which also says to me it's not going to be tied down to simply warrior only abilities that cause an enrage effect. This leads me to my next point of thinking it just wasn't worded all that great. Sure it could *just* be increased rage gain from bloodrage (how useless is that and I'm sure they're smart enough to see that) but unless you actually bother talenting Imp Zerker Rage it provides nothing but fear breaks and increased rage gain from being dmg'd, which in and of itself is being changed. So what...I can break fears twice as good? I can generate more rage from being dmg'd which just throws out the idea of normalizing rage gain from dmg intake out the window (same with bloodrage to an extent).

I'm not saying that I'm not taking liberties with the idea behind it, what I'm saying is due to certain wording it sounds like it would apply to all enrage effects, including outside sources. For abilities that provide no palpable benefit outside of some rage gain or utility effect, it would almost necessarily have to have some sort of dmg boosting component to it to make the mastery worthwhile. The only way I can see it not having this intent behind it, is that if the benefit is significant enough (more so after +mastery skill and scaling issues), then the only way to dial it down is to not let those abilities generate extra dmg as a side effect. To me, what Enrage Intensity does is turn a fury warrior into a CD machine using his CD's just to keep the mastery benefit rolling as often as possible.

[GhostSkull]

I seems to me that this is going to have some big effects on the way in which one plays an arms warrior. Instead of following the tanks' targeting like a hunter's pet, you could blitz & gush a mob, kite them as you disarm/cower a second untanked mob, and then attack the tank's targets. It'll mean that the tank has time to build threat and the warrior will have sufficiently low aggro that he could lay down some AoE. It'll give dps warriors a reason to be heavily armored, and offer logistical utility when a rogue can do better dps with significantly less threat.

I also like:

That you can lose yourself to your Inner Rage to boost situational attacks.
Getting rid of specializations. Having to respec and gem in order to change weapons was purposeless.
Not starting every encounter damaged from bloodrage and still getting the benefits of b/c/dshout + rage.

[Hatryd]

To Hatryd



I didn't say rage wasn't a problem and we do have infinite of it as the fight gos on but is it that wrong? I have a 80 dk tank, 80 disc priest, 80 arcane mage and 80 rogue and i've never miss out on resorces on any of them on any ICC raid boss fight as of yet (only exception being the rogue were i sometime find myself waiting a sec or two)
As for the Inner Rage all i'm saying is that 50% more rage cost seems a bit harsh for +15% damage. Again i'm just guessing here since i've not seen how teh rage normalization will actuly do to rage regen. But they could of dome something like it reduces are GCD by .5sec so that would give us 2 extra yellow hit over 5 sec which will take away that axtra rage.

Gushing Wound:didn't say its crap, i'm just not sure if it'll be worth its cost of rage and a GCD to be really implemanted in any rotation aspecialy fury. Still to be seen. As for the pvp aspect of it, yes it'll stay on you for a while but when are u ever scared of a rend tick?

Heroic leap: all in all, for a lvl 85 skill they just fucking droped the ball. They could of made something so much better.

The 17% hit was a typo. It suposed to be 27% hit which is white hit cap.

If they dont change Bladestorm mechanics, yes it will affect it because at this moment it uses the WW mechanics. AE was alway intended to be one of are strong points, Even in BC on big trash pull I remember toppinng the dps charts especialy on fights like Hyjal.

The blood lust comment was a comparation of as of now. They gave Wars unique skill to half of the other classes and yet keeped the unique shit of other class to them only.

Furious Sundering: I dont know about you but the war tanks in my guild only use devastate to get the sunders on and refresh them, other then that they rarely use it (but might be because they're lazy), hell with this change i wouldn't be suprised if the only reason they have it is for sword and board. But with HS changes that might change they'll actuly start using it more often.

Weapons talents: Yes are 2nd tier mastery gives arp, but i highly doupt that it will give 100% arp and btw the mastery on gear will only affect your 3rd tier mastery (been said so when they explained mastery). So a little extra arp to get so ever closer to 100% wouldn't to bad now would it? Hell of a lot better then sword spec proc.
For someone that calling me out for my reading comprehension you dont read to good yourself, fury 2nd mastery is melee HASTE not melee crit.
I know that sword mastery will aply to all weapons when did i say it wasn't? All i said was that they keeped the worst of the 3 to give to all weapons.

As for 1h DW just look at other specs of other class, they cant balance them out, theres always one better then the other and ppl are always going to go for that which gives better numbers. It'll be the same here.

I'm not pissing razors for blits, i just find it stupid to change one of are skill exacly the same as an other skill we already have.

How is it not are style to blow shit up when we were the first to have a +crit damage that used to be double what it is now?
This to me says that it will only increase the effect of which the enrage gives you, not give you extra of something it dosn't do.

Yes, infinite rage IS a problem. Always has been as it's just mindless spamming. I actually WANT to have to decide on when to start dumping rage, not look at a bar that's either empty or full 90% of the time. And again the same problem. It's not enough information simply because it's a teaser. 50% isn't a stuck number, and neither is 15%. If it was changed to 15% extra rage for 50% extra dmg would you be howling? Don't get stuck on numbers before it gets set in stone so much and think of the ideas behind it.

Gushing Wound: 1 bleed for both trees gets put on and constantly renewed by crits. No GCD there. One is needed for TfB procs so it's already in the rotation. So now you have an ability that you decide if it's useful or not. Festergut, no just use your slams as normal. Putricide, sure drop one slam put up a GW somewhere between 5-8 seconds before the next slime spawns depending on how abilities are lining up and you have some extra dmg being applied. And for pvp no one is scared of a rend tick. Never said that. I said for all 3 bleed ticks and gave an average total dmg of all 3. The point is that it's a pretty damn nice extra thing especially when tangling with things like mages and hunters. It's nice in that it's instant between other instant attacks that aren't available at the time.

Heroic Leap: Yeah I'll agree as a lvl 85 ability it's a bit meh but it's not the first time there's been a meh ability for level cap, we just happen to be the one getting it this time.

I don't think I've ever met any dual weilder that actually tries to hit the white hit cap, they just naturally gain more hit through better gear because they're after other stats. I highly doubt we're going to be forced to gear significantly for white attack hit cap.

And again, there's not enough info on how/if they are changing it. Whirlwind isn't part of a normal Arms rotation and Bladestorm in all likelihood will remain the Arms 51 pointer so will probably remain full dmg but with a target limit. And I'm happy you were top of the dps meters in MH trash. Bladestorm wasn't introduced until just before LK released so I hope you aren't talking about that, and if you were out dmging locks with SoC on trash then your locks suck...plain and simple.

Yeah I agree about bloodlust, still no announcement or information. Wait to see instead of trying to create a martyr where there is none.

I am the warrior tank in my guild. If shield slam/the new freight train revenge isn't up please tell me what your prot warriors are doing? Jacking their dick? Dev hits pretty damn hard for just a little instant ability and you can easily get 2 devs in there between revenge/ss cooldowns trying to get a snb proc. So again...what the hell are they doing?

Weapon talents: I'll have to go back and look but the original intent was Mastery skill affects all three of your masteries to different degrees depending on their tier. If it's changed then I'm wrong. But yeah you most likely won't be able to reach 100% armor pen anymore and that's a GOOD thing. Armor pen is broken. It has been for a long time. It sucked at the start, then it was OP so it was nerfed and it's STILL broken. And no a second attack is not bad (again not enough info but it'd be nice if they removed the ICD) since it's just extra dmg off any (yellow or white) attack that will end up also generating rage, for more filler slams, etc.

And yeah misread the 2nd tier mastery and if what Dhurn said is right then it was the original implementation but that's cool I can be happy with that. Crit is still going to be all over gear, and I can remain happy with that. It's all going to come down to how the new HP/DPS/Healing changes pan out.

Yeah one will always be better no one said that, but look back at the tiers. Sometimes the 'best' isn't apparent until new higher gear levels. Just not enough info on what will end up being the balance between the two.

Then don't take the talent. That simple. They said they wanted more choices for non passive bonuses and this is one. You're almost acting like it'll be a mandatory talent and it would just be terrible decision making by blizz to do it. I doubt they will. Again you just don't have enough info to get all batshit angry about it.

As for crit dmg, how'd that work out? Nerfed because it was a bit overpowered? Don't whine about something because the days of being overpowered ended, shit just isn't fun when you steamroll with hardly an effort. See my reply to Dhurn about Intensity. It could be wording or seeing what I want to see but logically there's more to it than just "I got bonus rage, YAAAYYYY!"

[Dementation]

I don't think I've ever met any dual weilder that actually tries to hit the white hit cap, they just naturally gain more hit through better gear because they're after other stats. I highly doubt we're going to be forced to gear significantly for white attack hit cap.

Thing about this is no other DW class (rogue to a certain extent) needs to hit to get rage, and especialy with 2 slow 2h a miss can be crippling to your rage regen and dps. If we dont hit we dont get shit, while shaman dont need to hit to get mana (other then shaman rage) and rogue get "extra" energy from hitting/criting but still get energy if they dont hit shit.

as for are prot war idk, i could be wrong but its kind of hard to miss when they devastate with that animation it got, guess hes just spamming hs but then again hes just are OT and when he dos end up tanking he never had any threat problems.

For AE not it wasn't with the WOTLK changes, i'm talking back when they put SS in fury and DW in arms.

Not saying blitz will be a mandatory, i'm just pissed that instead of giving us new and interresting talets they're just changing what we have in to something we already have, what so fun and exiting about that?

[Nate1493]

Ok, how to FIX the WW problem AND give warriors a better multi target aoe..

WW currently does 100% weapon damage to up to 4 targets.
WW currently proposed to do 50% weapon damage to all targets.

Instead!

Make WW do 50% weapon damage to all targets plus 50% of the weapon damage split amongst all targets!
This would make WW look like this.

1 Target:100% to all
2 Target:75%
3 Target:66%
4 Target:62.5%
5 Target:60%
6 Target:58.3%
7 Target:57%
8 Target:56.25%

Basically, this would mean you wouldn't have to mess with the warrior single target spell AND you could give flexibility for multiple targets, while still giving warriors a unique feel to WW!

Please, if you like this change, reply with it quoted or linked!

[Deleted]

Im not too excited by the changes so far.
Im super stoked for my shaman though that get new abilities that will totally define the class in cataclysm. Spirit link for resto is a game changer as is spirit walk for ele and resto. Elemental also get earthquake which may prove to be awesome or crap (we'll see)
The new mastery coupled with redesigned overload will mean a lot more mirror spells (which is cooler than mirror melee strike that warriors get).

Heroic leap is.....i dunno. Kinda redundant.

[Hatryd]

Thing about this is no other DW class (rogue to a certain extent) needs to hit to get rage, and especialy with 2 slow 2h a miss can be crippling to your rage regen and dps. If we dont hit we dont get shit, while shaman dont need to hit to get mana (other then shaman rage) and rogue get "extra" energy from hitting/criting but still get energy if they dont hit shit.

as for are prot war idk, i could be wrong but its kind of hard to miss when they devastate with that animation it got, guess hes just spamming hs but then again hes just are OT and when he dos end up tanking he never had any threat problems.

For AE not it wasn't with the WOTLK changes, i'm talking back when they put SS in fury and DW in arms.

Not saying blitz will be a mandatory, i'm just pissed that instead of giving us new and interresting talets they're just changing what we have in to something we already have, what so fun and exiting about that?

It's not that I'm disagreeing about the need to hit to get rage but as it is now fury rage gen is spikey as hell and you have to pay attention or rage starve or stay at cap and lower your dps. It's good that we'll have to pay attention to it but not be at one extreme or another because of rage normaliztion. On the other hand even if Enrage Intensity is just a simple boost to say what rage is generated through bloodrage/zerker then that's fine as well. 2 abilities and nicely lined up cd's to keep rage coming in, even on a miss streak. It's not THAT bad. No other dw class has our limitation but you're using 2 classes (and even a third if you talk about frost dk's) that use a completely different resource which is comparing apples to oranges. This is intentional. Otherwise we would all just have an energy/mana bar. Choices are good. You either gear significantly for hit to feel like your rage gen is evened out and lose out on potential dmg or you sacrifice a little to boost up the dmg you will be doing when you do hit. Missing is a fact of life for anyone who dw's.

I can promise you 1 of 2 things about prot. They're either using devastate constantly between ss's and revenges or they're just not playing as hard as they can. Even when offtanking I've always found it more effective to rely on rage gen abilities and auto attack to keep rage inc and spamming dev/ss.

I'm not saying we weren't good with AE. We're pretty damn nifty in that area depending on the number of targets. It's roughly even with other classes if it's 2-4. But I say again, anything past that if a lock didn't trounce your dmg out especially when more and more targets were added, then they're just terrible. The only melee who has a 'forte' in ae would be dk's and even then it shines with only 1 spec of the dk. Warriors and rogues are and always have been single target dps with the option to be able to ae to an extent, just like it is now. I can go fury and ae or arms and bladestorm and hit some nice shiney numbers, and then I can log on my lock and triple those numbers. AE is just not good as a 'strong point' of the warrior playstyle regardless of spec. Heck it doesn't even mesh with the flavor of playing a warrior who's all about tearing 1 target apart toe to toe.

And again on the blitz thing, it's far FAR too soon to get annoyed with it. With so many passive bonuses that are going to have to stripped out of the talent trees to follow with their new vision of talents, there's just tons of room to add in new fun talents. You don't like blitz. Awesome. It's not the end all be all, it's just an idea being tossed out as to where they're headed with talent design to replace passive bonuses. If it becomes a mandatory talent, then yeah we can start huffing and puffing. Even then it probably won't be anything to be mad about because if the trees are done right, it's just going to be a point that's hanging out there and we're looking for somewhere to drop it to move to the next tier and the only single talent it could ever be considered mandatory for would be Juggernaut even though it'll probably be the other way around.

[Clarkis2001]

So, what's the feeling for Heroic Leap? Will it need pathing or no? For example, as a Warlock if I use Teleport to the bridge in Blade's Edge arena will this ability be able to follow me?

Also, it shares a CD with one of the "gap closers" right? Or, rather, is this a third way to catch ranged? Thanks!

[Violenceman]

First i want to address all the gushing wound cheerleaders out there. Rend isnt worth a gcd as fury now, why would something that begins worse than rend and with enough movement ends slightly better than rend be any different, especially with rage normalization.
Second, Heroic leap is cool looking but thats it. Possibly useful for tanks or the oh so loved pvp warrior, which I am not either of. I roll arms/fury specs, both for pve depending on what buffs the raid is lacking. With these changes playing a dps warrior in a raid is going to be boring. I won't sunder now, making sunders cost no threat and generate a little dmg wont make me sunder in cata. Warriors look to be becoming a support class now.

1h fury will be interesting to see though, but the bonus dmg will have to be large to make up for the sheer weapon dmg and stats from 2handers. Not that the broken titans grip talent's 10% total dmg nerf isnt almost making up for it. lets try to be creative and repair talents instead of slapping a % dmg increase or decrease.