Cataclysm Class Preview: Rogue

[Grimshady]

Wouldn't the smoke bomb have exact same problems as vanish?

what do you mean? the factor of "i popped my smoke bomb right before, and he STILL smacked me with heroic strike"?

[Grob]

What happens when evasion and stuns ARENT on cooldown? Combat Readiness + Evasion + Dismantle? perhaps they will throw evasion and Combat Readiness on the same CD? if so... fml.

I cant see rogue have problems with melee classes. And its not like other melee classes dont have trouble with rogues right?

"combat readiness" seems easy enough to make useless in pvp. someone just hit the rogue once to get it to proc, then wait 6 seconds (attack the rogues teammates).

attack rogue teammates when rogue can do what he wants? GL with that ( If u are melee)

[Ais]

what do you mean? the factor of "i popped my smoke bomb right before, and he STILL smacked me with heroic strike"?

Yes.

[Flowen]

Some clarifications for Combat Readiness and Recuperate.

To clarify on Combat Readiness: when activated being hit will build up the Combat Insight buff. If not struck within 6 seconds of the last hit it will fall off and the Combat Readiness state will end. If the rogue continues to be hit however Combat Insight will continue to reapply, and it can be applied up to a maximum of 30 seconds total.


Numbers aren't quite hammered out yet but it restores based on max health and the more combo points used the longer it lasts. While it's introduced as a low level ability it obviously scales with gear and base health upgrades (being based on max health and all) and be useful for more than just leveling.

Combat readiness will be mostly useless in raids. It will be useful in battlegrounds against idiots, but against skilled players will basically be a "don't touch him for 6 seconds, then blow him up" cooldown, which can be ignored if the rogue waits for low health to pop it. It will be used often in PvP, but won't be the amazing ability some are making it out to be. I will love it for soloing though.

Recuperate will have plenty of use for soloing and battlegrounds. I really don't see it having any use in raids though, and I worry that bad healers in 5 mans will use it as an excuse to not heal through unavoidable damage. Im looking forward to see what I'll be able to solo with it though.

Smoke bomb will be useful in PvE to the extent that you can save your raid a wipe when you bring your raider's wife's friend's husband in to tank something on an offnight and he doesn't know how to LoS or taunt properly. Otherwise it seems like a nice way to try to restealth in battlegrounds or buy time to get a heal in arenas.

Overall though, I think I'm more excited about the DK and shaman changes seeing as I have a Blood DK tank alt and a Restoration Shaman healer alt. After seeing those, the rogue abilities seem a bit underwhelming.

[Grimshady]

I cant see rogue have problems with melee classes. And its not like other melee classes dont have trouble with rogues right?

i know, that wasnt my point.
what i was i trying to get at is that they are trying to fix cooldown issues with more cooldowns...


a fireman doesnt put out a burning building with more fire.

[Flowen]

Combat Readiness (level 83): Combat Readiness is a new ability that we intend rogues to trigger defensively. While this ability is active, whenever the rogue is struck by a melee or ranged attack, he or she will gain a stacking buff called Combat Insight that results in a 10% reduction in damage taken. Combat Insight will stack up to 5 times and the timer will be refreshed whenever a new stack is applied. Our goal is to make rogues better equipped to go toe-to-toe with other melee classes when Evasion or stuns are not in play. This ability lasts 6 seconds and has a 2-minute cooldown.

So this means i will have the chance to tank bosses in pve ???
What do you guys think about that combo transefer thingy?

If you're talking the last 1-3% of a mob's health, you can already do that with evasion. Otherwise, no, you won't be tanking. It has a 30 second maximum duration by the way, and you'd be getting smashed to pieces while getting the stacks up, plus you won't be crit immune.

[Clockworker]

]
"combat readiness" seems easy enough to make useless in pvp. someone just hit the rogue once to get it to proc, then wait 6 seconds (attack the rogues teammates). after 6 seconds, the buff drops off and starts a 2 minute cooldown. then everyone is free to attack the rogue and be sure that he won't get the defensive bonus. surely this makes the new skill useless, and blizzard will have to find a new way to implement it in beta.

Expecting people in PvP to not be idiots that want to unload their abilities all at the same time is...unrealistic, at best. The only time I ever see people wait before attacking someone is when a paladin bubbles.

[Grob]

"don't touch him for 6 seconds, then blow him up"

Many defensive cd work like that. At least you dont get damage penalty from it ( Like from shield wall and dispersion)

[Fuzzzie]

Smoke bomb seems really cool, but I have the feeling it will never see the light of day.

[Grimshady]

Overall though, I think I'm more excited about the DK and shaman changes seeing as I have a Blood DK tank alt and a Restoration Shaman healer alt. After seeing those, the rogue abilities seem a bit underwhelming.

I think you are right. the shaman/warlock and DK class changes really gave me a raging hard on and was expecting the same boner for my main, a rogue. When i didnt pitch a tent seeing the rogue changes, i think its because i was already so hard over the previous changes...

[Cronnix]

Even more surviving cooldowns? This sucks :|

[Stabatya]

1) They should of just made combo points apply to the rogue itself (maybe im high but i could of sworn they tested this at one stage... forget why it didnt stick). Wouldnt need some terrible use ability for it then and it would fix alot of the problems they are talking about.

2) Cheapshot on diminishing returns... lol.

3) Smokebomb looks like a good development for the game. If it works like previous posters say (ie. a target from outside the smoke unable to heal/buff a team mate inside the smoke) then one of two things is gonna happen. They gonna make it so YOUR friendly units, including yourself cant be healed/buffed inside the smoke also AND/OR itll be nerfed to hell and back because every 5s team will have a rogue... Race to see who can gib the other teams healer quicker?

Pretty dissapointing thus far, again, hope the the undocumented changes are better.

[Kunz]

•Ambush will now work with all weapons, but will have a reduced coefficient when not using a dagger. When opening from Stealth, all rogues will be able to choose from burst damage, DoT abilities, or a stun.

Does that mean you can equip, lets say a sword and make wtf pwn ambush :s :P

[Flowen]

Many defensive cd work like that. At least you dont get damage penalty from it ( Like from shield wall and dispersion)

Those are usable at low health to mitigate large amounts of damage. 10% per stack that stacks up to 50% is something you'd have to use when you first see the train headed your way, or paired with someone else's defensive cooldown to get the stacks built up. If the rogue is down to 20% health before popping this, they'll get bursted down to 6.5% health instead of 5%, then finished in the next hit anyway. It's not a bad ability, just not something super amazing either.

•Ambush will now work with all weapons, but will have a reduced coefficient when not using a dagger. When opening from Stealth, all rogues will be able to choose from burst damage, DoT abilities, or a stun.

Does that mean you can equip, lets say a sword and make wtf pwn ambush :s :P

No, the sword ambushes will hit for about the same as dagger ambushes, or possibly less as a 'penalty'. The damage modifier will be adjusted accordingly. Look at the new state of hemo and imagine the same idea applied to ambush.

[Arunu]

new abilities look interesting to say the least.
smoke bomb opens up a world of annoyance for others in both PVE and PVP , fun fun fun!

" waits patiently for cataclysm"

[Gougeripper]

I really hoped that rogue would get some nice damage buff... But doesnt seem like it...

Atm rogue is shit.. I played rogue 60,70,and start 80ies, and its overalt crap today vs. rangers... I play my lock (even though I more love the rogue) and pew pew alot easier now (no suprise ofc.)

Was hoping to see the rogue comming back from the grave, but sounds like not.

[vendelin]

Those are usable at low health to mitigate large amounts of damage. 10% per stack that stacks up to 50% is something you'd have to use when you first see the train headed your way, or paired with someone else's defensive cooldown to get the stacks built up. If the rogue is down to 20% health before popping this, they'll get bursted down to 6.5% health instead of 5%, then finished in the next hit anyway. It's not a bad ability, just not something super amazing either.

I guess you should use it when you are on 80% to avoid getting to 5% health as you will be a bad target to attack. (I don't know anything about pvp)

On Smoke Bomb, this will produce interesting uses in PvE. I assume that firendly units can kinda see through the cloud. If so it can be cast in a "random mob instagibbing healers". I hope that encouters will be designed so there is a use for the ability

Was hoping to see the rogue comming back from the grave, but sounds like not.

Rogues are not sitting in a grave, they are flying around with knifes, swords and fcking axes

[Flowen]

I guess you should use it when you are on 80% to avoid getting to 5% health as you will be a bad target to attack. (I don't know anything about pvp)

On Smoke Bomb, this will produce interesting uses in PvE. I assume that firendly units can kinda see through the cloud. If so it can be cast in a "random mob instagibbing healers". I hope that encouters will be designed so there is a use for the ability

That's pretty much how it would be used, though using it as low as 60% probably wouldn't be terrible if you had a healer. Still, most defensive cooldowns can be used effectively at more critical levels, so I'm a bit torn.

As for smoke bomb, I see it as artifically enforcing LoS rules, such that the mobs instagibbing the healers will continue to instagib said healers. They just will stop casting spells and wade into melee range to do said gibbing.

[vendelin]

As for smoke bomb, I see it as artifically enforcing LoS rules, such that the mobs instagibbing the healers will continue to instagib said healers. They just will stop casting spells and wade into melee range to do said gibbing.

You sure? They can not acquire a target who is standing in the cloud meaning that the dps will have 10 extra seconds to react. I think.

[loftus]

Recuperate, to convert combo points into a small heal-over-time (HoT). - omg yes, Ill be finally able to solo old stuff

This, This and this.

Also i love the change to weapon talents, finally no re-speccing just because i get a new weapon!