Interesting ideas after reading about the tree form change.

[BigGann]

I love the idea of tree form being a cooldown. It does suck that you can't run around in form the whole time, but it opens a ton of possibilities.

What do shadow priests think of the idea of making Shadowform a cooldown as well? While at the same time keeping the utility we have now.

I doubt we would be able to keep all our damage, but we would be able to heal until we popped shadowform. Dot people up, toss a renew on yourself. Shield, mind blast, flash heal. It could open up a whole new wolrd of utility for us in both pvp and pve.

Then when we pop shadowform we get a damage buff, maybe a few other things, and we can't heal or any of the normal holy/disc things while we are using that cooldown, would be a good trade off.

I know I kind of half assed this thread, I hope it made sense. Just seems interesting to me.

[chir0n]

I don't symphatize with this idea but I can see where you're coming from.

In my opinion not all classes should have the same mechanics.
There should be (visual) differences between different specs/classes aswel in my opinion.

I think the shadow orb system promises to be a good one. As long as it is not a similar soulshard mechanism.

[fabian]

The way I see is that as DPS, you're on the job 100% of the time, whether you're trying to avoid stuff to deal more damage, or just dealing damage, while as a healer, if no one is taking damage, why not toss out a couple of damaging spells to help out? ToL restricts that "idea" while shadowform does not.

Now, does that mean it is not possible for shadowform to go the way of ToL? No, but I'd rather have it as is, than have it changed.

[BigGann]

I can totally agree that classes/specs should be completely different and have their own mechanics. However, wow seems to be heading toward a big trend of homogenization, and we may as well take advantage.

Although, since we are getting haste and crit effecting dots anyway, we could still stay out of shadow form in pvp and have this same thing. We would take 15% more damage, and do 15% less damage, but the healing might make up for that. I am very interested to see how this is going to play out either way.

[BigGann]

The way I see is that as DPS, you're on the job 100% of the time, whether you're trying to avoid stuff to deal more damage, or just dealing damage, while as a healer, if no one is taking damage, why not toss out a couple of damaging spells to help out? ToL restricts that "idea" while shadowform does not.

Now, does that mean it is not possible for shadowform to go the way of ToL? No, but I'd rather have it as is, than have it changed.

We could look at this from both perspectives. Imagine a raid taking 1 less healer because there is a shadow priest in the group. When p2 hits, toss some renews and flash heals but keep your dots up. p1 and p3 you can blow shadowform and focus on dps. It would kind of make us a jack of all trades, master of none, but I used to love that in vanilla, and it might be entertaining in Cata.

[Azutael]

as a healer, if no one is taking damage, why not toss out a couple of damaging spells to help out? ToL restricts that "idea" while shadowform does not.

Tree of life costs pretty much no mana at all, you can just drop out of it and dps with no problems.

Then shift back to tree when needed.

Sadly it doessent seem many understand this, and we ended up with tree of life becomming a cd like metamorphosis. Which for healing is not very good if you ask me, healers tend to avoid activated trinkets that grants you more spellpower, because its too situational. A cooldown that does the same will be the same, too situational.
You will keep saving it, because you might need it more later. So in the end you hardly use it.

[Nithian]

Tree of life costs pretty much no mana at all, you can just drop out of it and dps with no problems.

Then shift back to tree when needed.

Sadly it doessent seem many understand this, and we ended up with tree of life becomming a cd like metamorphosis. Which for healing is not very good if you ask me, healers tend to avoid activated trinkets that grants you more spellpower, because its too situational. A cooldown that does the same will be the same, too situational.
You will keep saving it, because you might need it more later. So in the end you hardly use it.

/thread

[BigGann]

I have a feeling we will know when we will need to use cooldowns in cata. With all of the changes with speed increases, situational spells, ect ect. It seems like they will be changing pve some. You know that every 20% this boss does something that you will have to blow a cooldown on. Be it popping tree of life for extra healing while the tank shield walls, or popping dps cooldown to get him through a mini enrage.

Don't quote me on this, but I have a feeling this game is going to change a lot in cata.

[chir0n]

You will keep saving it, because you might need it more later. So in the end you hardly use it

I second this. I currently already do this sometimes with Guardian Spirit.
Same will be with all other healing cooldowns I guess

[BigGann]

So am I the only person that uses cooldowns constantly?

When I go holy I pretty much use guardian spirit every cooldown. Same with Disc and Pain Suppression. It just makes things easy, and let's face it, there are not a whole lot of oh shit moments where you have to use them anymore, so toss a renew and GS and smite!

As shadow I use shadowfiend as soon as it's available. I never really need the mana, use it for dps. I try to not have on use trinkets, but if I do I use them every cooldown.

To me it is like not using mind blast on cooldown, just doesn't make sense.

[harky]

I completely agree with the change to Tree Form and my main healer is a Druid. The current PVP scene is unfair to Druids. Yes, I realize Druid's are strong, but the play-style is dull and completely defensive. Bringing a Disc Priest is bringing a third DPS which can also heal efficiently. Bringing a Shaman brings a lot of offensive potential as well. Bringing a Paladin even supplies a lot of offense and ability to wade into combat using their class based abilities. Druids? Nope. You'll spend the vast majority of your time in a form which locks off all of your offense. No one else has to do that.

Shadowform is a different beast entirely. Shadowform has its own defense and offense options and is needed in the same way that Moonkin form is to balance (no pun intended) the defensive potential of an offensive class. Imagine if Shadow Priests had their full DPS potential outside of Shadowform.

It's about expectations. Healers are expected to be an offensive presence. Druids were a huge offensive threat in TBC and Blizz took that away. Part of it was because they were overpowered, part of it was because they just made Treeform too strong. Blizz wants a renewal of the old TBC style arenas, which is a very good thing.

Now, the only issue, really? Well, a cooldown like Tree of Life is not suited to a healer. It works for DPS as in Metamorphosis, because you can blow it on cooldown for a DPS increase, which will never be wasted. On the other hand it means that Druids will need to guess when to blow Tree of Life to heal. It's not going to be a good model. My solution would be adding a Tree of Life glyph that makes it permanent, but reduces armor and brings its bonuses down. So you wouldn't want the glyph in PVP, but you'd use it in PVE.

Not sure why this is in Priest forums, but w/e.

[fabian]

There is also a blue post about how they compare Boomkins to Mages. (Rough summary)Since Balance druids go into moonkin form to dps like a mage and lose healing abilities, it is balanced because a mage can not heal. But for healers, that balance does not exist. For restoration druids to get the same thorough put as say a disc priest, they would need to be in ToL, which restricts their damaging abilities while the disc priest can do damage as his/her whim.

[BigGann]

Not sure why this is in Priest forums, but w/e.

...It's about a priest ability...

[fabian]

...It's about a priest ability...

Well, TBH, it kinda got derailed to being about ToL, but it could have gone into any of three forums.

[BigGann]

Lol very true, but the intent was to talk about shadowform being a offensive cooldown, if that means anything at all...

[fabian]

So, Shadowform becoming an offensive CD? Well, it would actually give us one that doesn't also give us mana, so it would be good. But, the idea of losing healing abilities is fine with Blizz since mages/locks can not heal. TBH, I am indifferent to it, but leaning towards keeping shadowform as is.

[Xelaeno]

My solution would be adding a Tree of Life glyph that makes it permanent, but reduces armor and brings its bonuses down. So you wouldn't want the glyph in PVP, but you'd use it in PVE.

Not sure why this is in Priest forums, but w/e.

I like this idea. Regardless of the restrictions I find Tree of Life simply too iconic in defining the druid class to be changed into a cooldown. It would be really sad actually, after 3 or so years to finally get the broccoli model revamped but can't see it often because of a cooldown, not to mention the emotes and dances.