Subversion vs BCB

[Mirveous]

In the standard 0/53/18 Frost DW spec, I'm wondering if taking 3 out of Blood-Caked Blade and putting it into Subversion would be better, making the spec 3/53/15.

[z3r082]

bcb = more damage get hand of salv if you have probs :P with tricks and MD available you shouldn't have problems with threat.

[OnlineSamantha]

I use 1/52/18 with 1 point Subversion.

[loveshack]

As long as your raid gots tricks and MD, you should be fine w/o taking Subversion.

[Pieterman]

assuming u ment it for damage, instead of threat (as those things have been answered) check your recount data, calculate what the damage would have been with 9% obliterate crit and no BCB.
if u did mean it for threat, tell your tank to L2P or make him roll a paladin.

[Oommx]

yea...i wouldn't take the point in subversion...threat shouldn't be an issue if your tanks aren't bad

[Wingwraith]

The OP is actually on to something in that Subversion is actually a pretty decent dps talent depending on your gear level. The last time I was running sims for 1/52/18, Subversion had a higher dps/point ratio than Black Ice and CotG. However, I've never seen it sim higher than BCB, ever.

[Ldygaga]

In the standard 0/53/18 Frost DW spec, I'm wondering if taking 3 out of Blood-Caked Blade and putting it into Subversion would be better, making the spec 3/53/15.

try taking one point out of KM or Black Ice and putting it into Subversion
don't take it out of BCB

[BoxofRox]

I use 1/52/18 with 1 point Subversion.

This.

Black Ice isn't exactly the greatest talent. If you need anything in subversion, take it from there. Alot of players are using this spec above, even Kumduh The Amazing! =D

[Mirveous]

Yeah I didn't mean subversion for -threat, just for dps.
But I will have to try out 1/52/18

Thanks for the help guys

[Slagge]

Actually 0/53/18 would probably be the highest dmg with 2 points in BI and 5 in KM & 2 CotG for me. I tend to play with 1 point in Sub. as the difference is a whopping >10 dps.

[kumduh]

This.

Black Ice isn't exactly the greatest talent. If you need anything in subversion, take it from there. Alot of players are using this spec above, even Kumduh The Amazing! =D

I'm flattered, but I wear the Insane title. As others have said, BCB is too good to take points from. If you need a point in subversion for reduced threat take it from either Black Ice, Killing Machine, or Chill of the Grave. I personally enjoy 2/2 CotG because runic power as frost is like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

[Praxis]

I'm flattered, but I wear the Insane title. As others have said, BCB is too good to take points from. If you need a point in subversion for reduced threat take it from either Black Ice, Killing Machine, or Chill of the Grave. I personally enjoy 2/2 CotG because runic power as frost is like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

This is basically how I feel; I have no RP problems with 0/2 CotG with a resto druid, but without one, it's really tough, and I'm not about to respec for every raid based on the presence of an rdruid. :\

EDIT: As for the topic, I'm one of many running 1/52/18 at the moment, although my primary reason for the point in Subversion is because I need the crit. I have horrendously low crit from my gear because I've been gearing so much for ArP (so I have a lot of arp/exp or arp/hit items). When I gain some crit, I'll probably drop the point in Subversion for something else.

[khalpone]

I strongly feel the 1 pt in subversion is well worth it for the threat reduction, the crit is icing on the cake. While you will almost never have issues after the first minute of an encounter, it allows you to push dps at the begining. Assuming you have a decent tank anyway. As others have noted, BCB is not where you want to remove a point though.

[BoxofRox]

I'm flattered, but I wear the Insane title.

Only because the Amazing title doesn't exsist in-game.

[Wingwraith]

Only because the Amazing title doesn't exsist in-game.

Geeez... get a room. ;-)

[mhp]

Geeez... get a room. ;-)

Sorry, it's occupied.

[Praxis]

Sorry, it's occupied.

By..us? <3?

[mhp]

By..us? <3?

Oh! So YOU are the third one?

Mystery solved, yay! \o/

[Albert the fish]

ohh let's face it. the majority of the DK forum is one big love orgy at this point
which is od