Healing Priest Haste Cap.

[dway72]

Hey, just wondering if anyone had some numbers (or point me in the right direction) regarding Haste caps for Disc and Holy?

[harky]

GCD caps: 1269 Holy, 1012 Disc.

[Kelesti]

That's just the GCD, when you can continue to see haste benefitting your spells beyond that point, as Prayer, Greater Heal, and Penance all have a longer cast time than the Global Cooldown.

[Frmercury]

That's just the GCD, when you can continue to see haste benefitting your spells beyond that point, as Prayer, Greater Heal, and Penance all have a longer cast time than the Global Cooldown.

However the Gearing and Gemming required to reach the GCD cap for Holy is such that you would sacrifice far too much regen (Crit -> HC) to go above it. As Disc you're only going to reach it by gemming as well, which is a poor choice for Disc Priests.

[harky]

You do not need to gem haste as Discipline to reach the GCD hard cap.

As Holy BiS gear doesn't even reach the GCD hard cap when gemmed almost entirely haste, so it's a bit of a moot point. You can pass it, but you'd be using sub-optimal gear. Renew, CoH and PoM are all GCD bound. The only benefit beyond 1269 is on PoH and while PoH is a very strong tool even on fights that favor it the optimal haste amount is actually the GCD hard cap as well, which matches the PoH cast time to the frequency of damage aura ticks.

[Ryoflash]

While holy is sexy I haven't seen priests hitting cap yet. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it going to be something only achieved once they have a complete BiS set? I mean while yes in just decent icc gear holy priests generally sit on around 800-900 haste I haven't seen numbers that high. I wasn't even thinking bout if their haste would be going past it because it seems its still a little ways off for most.

[harky]

It depends on your set, Ryo. You can hit 1200+ pretty easily without yet being in BiS gear. The BiS list is there because it uses other factors besides haste, if your goal is purely haste you can get it quite a bit higher at a faster pace. You can actually GCD hard cap without a single piece of 277 gear.

[zito]

It depends on your set, Ryo. You can hit 1200+ pretty easily without yet being in BiS gear. The BiS list is there because it uses other factors besides haste, if your goal is purely haste you can get it quite a bit higher at a faster pace. You can actually GCD hard cap without a single piece of 277 gear.

Would you reccomend though to gem purely haste even in ICC normal gear? I am looking into this and I can't find the answer I won't have the position to get herioc gear so I am wondering if it should be better to gem haste without herioc gear?

[harky]

It really depends on trinkets and professions. If you're a tailor and have dual Solace, then yeah you probably can go with almost pure haste gemming. In other cases maybe not.

[rubberbands]

That's just the GCD, when you can continue to see haste benefitting your spells beyond that point, as Prayer, Greater Heal, and Penance all have a longer cast time than the Global Cooldown.

In other words, you have to be more specific by what you mean by "cap" dway. If you meant "GCD 1 sec cap" harky is correct. 1269/1012 will presume you have the WOA totem [and] a boom/ret And yes, 1269 is very achievable without 277 stuff.

Would you reccomend though to gem purely haste even in ICC normal gear? I am looking into this and I can't find the answer I won't have the position to get herioc gear so I am wondering if it should be better to gem haste without herioc gear?

You will never find a definite answer because there will always be a heated debate. For the same reason I have never believed in "BiS" lists simply because the "best" stats are being argued over all the time.

To put it succintly without typing a whole essay:
-Personally, I would say screw HC and SoL "uptimes" or "crit X% minimums" or "minimum SP" or weights. I like haste, so I recommend you gem/gear/chant it as top priority as well
-That being said, there will be alot of differing opinions you will read on these forums, and very especially so for the priest class
-So take my opinion into consideration, think about opposing views as well and develop your own beliefs supported by personal experience

[Calendra12345]

I like haste, so I recommend you gem/gear/chant it as top priority as well

tbh you should not go for full haste gems, spellpower is (in my opinion) a tiny bit better then haste. I have no clue about this myself, its just what I read in some calculations people made on EJ etc.

I myself only gem Spellpower/Haste in Yellow, sometimes even red sockets.

[Kelesti]

tbh you should not go for full haste gems, spellpower is (in my opinion) a tiny bit better then haste. I have no clue about this myself, its just what I read in some calculations people made on EJ etc.

I myself only gem Spellpower/Haste in Yellow, sometimes even red sockets.

So you're giving advice that you have no idea about yourself, but you read somewhere. Right. Awesome. And "Calculations"? Who calculates healing?

You have a 10% buff going into ICC, period. Flat out increase. Awesome. Your tanks get 10% more stamina, but do they take 10% more damage? No. This is a chance to optimise yourself here, and make the change over because your heals go for "enough" from your gear, thus getting more out is better than slightly stronger and even more useless output.

[harky]

Just for silly happy fun time (I'm bored).

Greater Heal hard cap: 4,300 haste
Prayer of Healing hard cap: 5,817 haste

Honestly, what's actually important is not any 'cap', but instead haste values that allow optimal cooldown usage.

So, for instance, with CoH with 0% haste you can get 3 instant casts in between CoH casts. How much haste do you need to get 4? Well, that's simple. You remember the old base value goal from Ulduar/Naxx of 11%? That's the exact value needed to get in 4 instant cast spells (or two PoH) between each CoH. How much do you need for 5? Well, that's simple. That's 1269, the GCD hardcap. You can't get more GCDs between casts than that, obviously.

So what about the 'sub-GCD cap' numbers? For instance, many (including me!) recommend ~20-25% as a starter goal for ICC. Well, that's because CoH based 'rotations' aren't as important. PoM based ones can be though! See, PoM has a 7 second, instead of 6 second cooldown. This actually occurs at 18.9% haste, but 20% is a good solid number and 25% allows for some lag.

Here's the reason:
11% haste CoH based rotation- CoH -> PoM -> GCD -> GCD -> GCD -> CoH -> CLASH

Note that CLASH point is because you now have .2 seconds before PoM is up. You either need to delay the PoM, or cast something else in the meantime.

Now, if you aren't going to prioritize CoH and have 18.9% haste this is what happens:
18.9% haste PoM based rotation- PoM -> CoH -> GCD -> GCD -> GCD -> GCD -> REPEAT

At the REPEAT note you just start over. This will technically delay the CoH cooldown, but the key here is that it opens the option. If at the REPEAT point you can make the decision. Which will heal for more at that moment? CoH, or PoM. You have instant access to both at this point, so you can cast either one.

Okay, so if 18.9% is a sort of holy grail, why get more? Well, there's one other thing to consider. Renew based 'rotations'. Now you're dealing not with 6, not with 7, but with 15 seconds. So what are some obtainable haste levels favorable to blanket Renew? Well, you have the 13 and 14 magic numbers. The 13 number is 20.2%. At this point you have 13 GCDs available for each cast of Renew before it falls off. The 14 magic number is 29.45%, same thing but one more GCD. At this point you could technically keep 14 people in the raid Renew'd permanently. For you Renew glyph users (see: heathen scum), you have caps at 27.1% and 15.6%. You don't count though, because you're evil scum! Though, technically if you're at 27.1% haste the Renew glyph is actually a throughput gain until you get another 2.35% haste.

TL;DR: Haste is complicated.

PS: Yes, go for Haste gems. For the love of god, if you're in 264 or better and not having regen issues, go for Haste gems.

[Ryoflash]

It depends on your set, Ryo. You can hit 1200+ pretty easily without yet being in BiS gear. The BiS list is there because it uses other factors besides haste, if your goal is purely haste you can get it quite a bit higher at a faster pace. You can actually GCD hard cap without a single piece of 277 gear.

Thanks, that's what I was assuming. I was just worried that maybe there was a new transition where suddenly priests were wanting to gem a bunch of haste like resto shammies. I've always heard/read that priests should work on a balance between their stats and was wondering if it had changed on me while was away :P.

[harky]

Yeah, it's still a balance. My usual recommendation for ICC25 is to aim for 20-25% haste, 30% crit (raid buffed), 4k SP (raid buffed), while maintaining 900-1200 spirit raid buffed. When you go into 277 gear this goes out the window to an extent because Int/SP is so, so, so high that you can basically ignore both as Holy and just go nuts with Haste. Either stop at 960, or aim for 1269 GCD hard cap. Blah blah. No, Priests are still the most complex healer to gear. You don't have an abnormally low haste cap (Druids), or funky scaling (Disc), or one stat that's too good (Shaman-Haste, Paladin-Int), so yeah that 'balance' is still there.