1. #1

    (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Hello all. I am seeking for reasons of gemming either ap or haste but obviously different sources say different things about that. I have recently got my 4p bonus and wondering wheether it is better to stack more ap to get more out of the proc, or haste for more uptime. Although I think I may have already derailed the thread slightly for some background , what I want to know is how haste affects MSW. I thought that MSW was ppm rather than a % chance, so does haste aafect ppm rates of all procs? Thank you in advance and sry for a wall of text
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  2. #2

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    more haste = more hits = more msw procs = more LB's = more damage
    currently i have around 600 haste on gear and with all procs i have around 1600 which makes my 2.6speed weapons hits every 1.06 seconds and must say i love it. With hero i hit every 0.8 seconds.

  3. #3

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    so ppms ARE affected by haste? or is it just for MSW? Just my main is a rogue, and I know that since instant poison is ppm rather than % (like deadly), it goes on a slower weapon as it would still proc the same as on a fast one. Or is ppm not affected by base wep speed but IS by haste? Just want to clarify some things Also, what I find inconvenient about haste is that I'm filled with spells every GCD and despite lowering the gcd haste will also cause me to even more spells to cast. So maybe ap is actually worth it if you're at reletively nice haste (550 IMO) since it will increase the benefit from the 4p proc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elementium
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  4. #4

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    PPM uses the weapon speed (as stated upon the weapon tooltip) to calculate the the proc rate of an effect. The calculated proc chance is fixed per swing. If you hasten your swings, you'll get more procs.

  5. #5
    Deleted

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    If you skimmed the shaman forum fast - you would notice this excellent thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-shaman/(howto)-enhancement-shaman-determining-best-gemming-using-rawr-and-enhsim/

    That explains to the fullest what you have to do to get your question answered. Since noone here can answer it for you, unless they sit down and do the work for you.

  6. #6

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitriy
    more haste = more hits = more msw procs = more LB's = more damage
    currently i have around 600 haste on gear and with all procs i have around 1600 which makes my 2.6speed weapons hits every 1.06 seconds and must say i love it. With hero i hit every 0.8 seconds.
    Sorry if i'm hijacking this a little but i've been wondering for a while. Why do we try and get the slowest one handed weapons possible but them speed them up as much as possible with haste? Seems strange to me.

  7. #7

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Sim it.

    The stat weight changes with every point of haste/AP you get

  8. #8

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Quote Originally Posted by dgmmidge
    Sorry if i'm hijacking this a little but i've been wondering for a while. Why do we try and get the slowest one handed weapons possible but them speed them up as much as possible with haste? Seems strange to me.
    Enh shaman do not have normalized attacks. Our attacks and WF and such are all based on weapon dmg. The slower the weapons have much higher dmg output for the slower speed. So these abilities are able to fully take advantage of that, and bring out more dps. It's similar to why dks do the same thing. Rogues don't do this because they have many normalized abilities, especially finishers, and they do not rely as heavy on the min-max dmg of a weapon as a shaman would.
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  9. #9
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    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Quote Originally Posted by dgmmidge
    Sorry if i'm hijacking this a little but i've been wondering for a while. Why do we try and get the slowest one handed weapons possible but them speed them up as much as possible with haste? Seems strange to me.
    The slower the weapon's base speed, the higher the damage per strike. This is important because abilities like Stormstrike and Windfury procs are based on weapon damage; the higher the per-strike amount, the better.

    Haste makes us hit faster, but has no effect on the per-strike damage of the weapon.

    There's no reason to want to attack slowly, as an Enhancement shaman. The reason we want slow weapons is their higher per-hit damage.


    As for the haste vs AP debate, consider this; haste will often sim better than AP, at higher gear levels (it does for me). But, you only get the benefit of that haste when you're sitting there whacking at the enemy. This is great on fights like Saurfang, but on fights like Blood Princes or Professor Putricide, you don't stay on target for too long, and there's a lot of tossing shocks and such while running between targets. In those kinds of fights, AP will be much better, solely because it translates directly to more damage per hit. I haven't had a chance to run in about a month or so, but in my guild 25-mans, we had another Enhancement shaman. I was gemming haste, he was gemming AP. Some fights, I blow his DPS out of the water, others, he outdoes me, for the reason above. I'm considering switching back to AP myself to test it out, but it's something to consider at least.


  10. #10

    Re: (enh pve) MSW and haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus
    As for the haste vs AP debate, consider this; haste will often sim better than AP, at higher gear levels (it does for me). But, you only get the benefit of that haste when you're sitting there whacking at the enemy. This is great on fights like Saurfang, but on fights like Blood Princes or Professor Putricide, you don't stay on target for too long, and there's a lot of tossing shocks and such while running between targets. In those kinds of fights, AP will be much better, solely because it translates directly to more damage per hit. I haven't had a chance to run in about a month or so, but in my guild 25-mans, we had another Enhancement shaman. I was gemming haste, he was gemming AP. Some fights, I blow his DPS out of the water, others, he outdoes me, for the reason above. I'm considering switching back to AP myself to test it out, but it's something to consider at least.
    Keep in mind that there is no rule that says you can't gem both. Neither stat is going to realistically amount to a DPS loss over the other, and each is valuable in certain situations. I use AP/Haste gems in yellow slots.
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