Warriors using Vigilance on DK Tanks

[Lammy]

First off, I switched from Frost 2H tanking to Blood tanking since I want to get used to tanking in Blood just in case they don't change too many things in Cata. I love how I can just DS almost all day long and healers aren't complaining I am such a sponge. I also love Mark of Blood on healing intensive fights. But as the subject line reads, I am curious as to what to do when warrior OT or MT for that matter, casts Vigilance on DK tanks.

I was in ICC10 man last night and during the first few bosses the warrior had Vigilance on me. I had a lot of trouble keeping the trash mobs on me on AoE pull and sometimes even lost threat to a dps. On boss fights I kept on bouncing back and forth with him on pulls and until I hit my second IT or RS in the rotation our threat is almost the same. If I was the OT then I wouldn't care, but I was running as MT last night since I have 64k hp buffed and he was at 53k hp. A few other warriors I partnered with said that it's good for them if they have Vigilance on the MT for taunts and whatnot, but each time they do that I have issues with threat because of that effect. Now, maybe I need to learn how to step up my game more or maybe spam IT more, but spamming IT really messes with my rotation along with taking out DS shots.

Anyhow, after we did H Lootship he started using Vigilance on our highest DPS and from that point it was smooth sailing. Saurfang switches went without any problems along with the Festergut fight. We called it after a wipe on Prince because the OP Resto Druid (hehehe) had to go, but overall I think having Vigilance on DK tanks somewhat messes us up. I just wanted to get a few opinions on this because I don't know anything about warrior tanking and I don't want to gimp my partner at the same time if it's something that's helpful to him. I will ask him not to do that any more on next week's run, but yeah, any pointers can be useful. Like I said before, maybe I just need to try to find a way to step up my game more.

Here's my armory in case I am somehow gearing or gemming incorrectly.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Lamminator

[Kaelaris]

1. Look at your buffs
2. Cancel Vigilance
3. ???????????????
4. PROFIT!

[mhp]

What he said. That, or do more threat. Or both.

I love when warriors vigilance me, personally, since it's what 3% extra damage reduction? My threat is through the roof anyway.

[Wingwraith]

As stated above, if the agro reduction is affecting your tanking ability, you can quietly cancel the buff and watch for the next time the Warrior puts it on you to cancel it again.

or

You can smack the Warrior upside his head and tell him to stop.

[DesT.]

This should help if you really want. Easy macro. I can write a in-game script too, if you'd prefer that.

#showtooltip
/cancelaura Vigilance
/cast !Runestrike
/cast Icy Touch

[dwsr]

If you're main tanking, you should never have Vigilance on you*. It should always be going to a high threat DPS. Bothers me to absolutely no end when I see warrior tanks not dropping Vigilance on Warlocks who are dropping Seed of Corruption in trash and so forth. If you have 64k health buffed in ICC, there's no way that 3% damage mitigation is going to make any difference for killing anything on normal mode. I can't speak for heroic mode, but I imagine that the story is pretty similar.

* Unless you're Vigilance swapping.

TL;DR Your warrior OT is dedrater gnikcuf for doing that.

[Candlemaster]

vigilance should not be causing you to do less threat or anything, maybe on aoe he might get a "tiny" bit ahead of you, but from what ive seen warriors do helluva a lot more threat then dks in aoe, especially blood tanks (this is from personal experience so dont flame me) also i really hope the only reason u were mt wasnt just because you had more hp than the warrior tank, youre a dk, your supposed to have more.

edit cuz i was was thinking of vigiliance backwards . but least im man enough to admit it. i still have never seen a dps at 90% threat tho on bosses so ive theres no other 3% reduc buff its a good thing =). it all depends on much threat you can do i guess.

[Lammy]

vigilance should not be causing you to do less threat or anything, maybe on aoe he might get a "tiny" bit ahead of you, but from what ive seen warriors do helluva a lot more threat then dks in aoe, especially blood tanks (this is from personal experience so dont flame me) also i really hope the only reason u were mt wasnt just because you had more hp than the warrior tank, youre a dk, your supposed to have more. but seriously though, if vigilance is giving you trouble then you may as well say blessing of sanc is giving you trouble, or w/e the disc priest buff is. its not hurting you at all, the only way it could hurt you was say you were doing PP and tank got 4 stacks of debuff, u taunted and the tank kept whaling on the boss and his 3% extra threat from you let him steal threat and wipe the raid but any 1/2 decent warrior wouldnt do that. but in all honesty, its not vigilance, I think youre just trying to figure out how to threat as blood dk

Yeah, that's why I wasn't really sure what to do with this. I wasn't MT mainly because I had more HP. I had better gear, stats, and experience than him in ICC. I'll experiment with different rotations to see what I can do. Thanks for the information guys.

[PCK]

Even if a warrior casts that on you you shouldnt lose aggro no matter if ur not spamming IT or if u are

[Deleted]

I dunno why warriors do it tho...im a pala tank and they do it on me and im thinking to my self 'why are you doing this'...i dont have a prob with the aggro even with it on but i dont see why not give to the person thats pulling aggro (normally the warlock:P) and i say it to them but they dont listen lol

[Desirie]

I actually had this happen to me in VoA25, I didn't cancel it for some reason, but hey.. It's 3% damage reduction. ;D The warrior whispered me after the raid telling me "Your threat was so massive, I thought I'd just borrow some" :P

[dwsr]

vigilance should not be causing you to do less threat or anything, maybe on aoe he might get a "tiny" bit ahead of you, but from what ive seen warriors do helluva a lot more threat then dks in aoe, especially blood tanks (this is from personal experience so dont flame me) also i really hope the only reason u were mt wasnt just because you had more hp than the warrior tank, youre a dk, your supposed to have more. but seriously though, if vigilance is giving you trouble then you may as well say blessing of sanc is giving you trouble, or w/e the disc priest buff is. its not hurting you at all, the only way it could hurt you was say you were doing PP and tank got 4 stacks of debuff, u taunted and the tank kept whaling on the boss and his 3% extra threat from you let him steal threat and wipe the raid but any 1/2 decent warrior wouldnt do that. but in all honesty, its not vigilance, I think youre just trying to figure out how to threat as blood dk

lolwat?

You do realize that Blessing of Sanctuary and Renewed Hope don't actually transfer threat, and Vigilance does, right?

[Lammy]

Even if a warrior casts that on you you shouldnt lose aggro no matter if ur not spamming IT or if u are

I don't spam IT, and even if I wanted to I doubt I can spam it on 5-6 mobs.....

[shadet]

I dunno why warriors do it tho...im a pala tank and they do it on me and im thinking to my self 'why are you doing this'...i dont have a prob with the aggro even with it on but i dont see why not give to the person thats pulling aggro (normally the warlock:P) and i say it to them but they dont listen lol

I like to trade Vigilance for Hand of Salvation when a warrior does this to my pally!

[gaymer77]

I don't spam IT, and even if I wanted to I doubt I can spam it on 5-6 mobs.....

That's why there's D&D that has huge threat baked in it.............

[glemmstengal]

you guys have no clue how vigilance works, if you get vigilance and "suddenly lose threat" its because you are suddenly underperforming
vigilance transfers threat from its target to the warrior, the relationship between the threat of the target and the warrior are affected
the target doesn't LOSE threat, it transfers threat to the warrior
if i vigilance a rogue doing 7000 tps, i gain 700 tps
if i vigilance a dk tank doing 10,000 tps, i gain 1000 tps
it does NOT lowers the rogues tps to 6300 or the dks tps to 9000

[DesT.]

you guys have no clue how vigilance works, if you get vigilance and "suddenly lose threat" its because you are suddenly underperforming
vigilance transfers threat from its target to the warrior, the relationship between the threat of the target and the warrior are affected
the target doesn't LOSE threat, it transfers threat to the warrior
if i vigilance a rogue doing 7000 tps, i gain 700 tps
if i vigilance a dk tank doing 10,000 tps, i gain 1000 tps
it does NOT lowers the rogues tps to 6300 or the dks tps to 9000

You sir, are the biggest I've seen in ages. Vigilance TRANSFERS 10% of the targets threat to the warrior. Which means the 10k TPS becomes 9k, and the warriors TPS increases by 1k. It does lower their TPS. What it doesn't do is work like HoSalv where your threat is reduced.

[Torzak]

I see some views in here that are rather contradictory to my own.

Vigilance IMO should never be placed on the other tank whether it's MT or OT except in the situation where the boss's mechanics are such that the OT actually takes more damage than the MT and the MT struggles to stay ahead on threat. Patch seems to be about the best example of this. I was always wanted as the OT when the content was relevant and occasionally a MT warrior would vigilance me so there was less worry of our roles swapping. This was only really ever especially true if the particular warrior had trouble staying ahead of me on threat. I have on occasion seen warriors mid fight swap their vigilance target to me on Patch because of this.

Outside of this scenario, Vigilance should always go to the DPS that will threaten to pull threat because the effect is three fold that way:
1) You gain 10% of that DPS's threat as the warrior tank
2) You allow that DPS to do more DPS because now they have 10% less threat
3) Your other tank isn't losing 10% of his threat

Edit:

I like to trade Vigilance for Hand of Salvation when a warrior does this to my pally!

If I had something similar as a Druid, I'd probably do that to the warrior too.

if i vigilance a rogue doing 7000 tps, i gain 700 tps
if i vigilance a dk tank doing 10,000 tps, i gain 1000 tps
it does NOT lowers the rogues tps to 6300 or the dks tps to 9000

You need to relearn what the word "Transfer" means.

[Deleted]

Good time for a Warrior to Vigilance other Tank/s (from my Pov):
Phase 1 LK if Warrior is MTing. Can be helpful to OT when he/she has 2 Shambling Horrors enraged.
Blood Princes if Warrior is doing the Prince on the right and other Tank is doing Middle one, 3% more Miti can help.
Festergut +3 if Warrior is the current OT.
Deathbringer when he goes Frenzy it can be helpful to the other Tank if they're the one with the boss at the time.
Marrowgar OT can use it to avoid some Cleave damage. (But seriously, doubt you'll wipe from Cleave unless the Healer goes afk....)
Blood Queen OT could use Vigilance for 3% decreased damage on MT if he doesn't have Threat issues, which eventually he/she won't have at all due to the Bite. Yes, I do realize mostly the OT is in DPS Spec, just saying.

Those are just some examples. Vigilance shouldn't be underestimated, it can really help, especially in progression.

[DesT.]

incorrect

Proof please. I'd like to know how I've missed something so important having raided with a warrior since WotLK began and having one myself.