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  1. #261

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Serryn
    is your entire raid stuck in frost tombs?
    Like he said...

    Proper usage...

    lol

  2. #262

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    OH HAI THAR






    Still QQing about the addOn?

    for fk sake

  3. #263

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Heh AVR. Easy just got easier.

  4. #264

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Addons like that won't be needed in Cata, because why would you need tactics on positions when there are only 10 of you.

  5. #265

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Maybe I'm missing something -- AVR doesn't show everyone else in raid what you're drawing, so they still have to go on the web and watch a video you produced or look at screenshots, which doesn't seem much different than looking up strats on worldofraids or w/e.... and AVRe doesn't seem any different than DBM which people already use.. To some extent, I think people will still make their own encounter diagrams, since you can get people thinking more clearly about it sometimes by showing things in 2d.. like that one flash game for the boss in BT where you had to control the constructs -- was that cheating? I don't think so.

    Mods use the blizz API, meaning they don't do anything Blizzard hasn't approved of (because they can't!). Purists can continue to discuss how they wouldn't use this mod, but they shouldn't call it cheating (hand-holding, being carryed, coddled, etc are all fair terms though).

    Also, who is telling you guys to download this mod? AVR woudln't do you a bit of good to download unless you're producing a strat. and AVRe is already covered by DBM, which most raiding guilds already use (if only for the ability to push timers to clients for breaks/raid start/etc).

  6. #266

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    I find it vaguely amusing that over 19 pages of discussion there are still people that :

    (a) Can't seem to tell the difference between AVR and AVR-E (encounters)

    The first is basically a tool for raider leaders. You draw on the screen and everyone sees it. Every Raid should have this for positioning calls.

    The second is the one you should be concerned about. That is the one that's automatically bringing up colour squares and circles on bosses.

    (b) Believe this will lead to an addon that moves you automatically.

    Quite frankly I don't see that happening.

    Currently you can't do that using the Lua API as moving requires a hardware event. I don't see them changing this.

    My evidence ? A post in the UI/Macros forum was made about being able to use the /dump command that come in 3.2 to run protected functions. A few minutes after that the post was edited to hide the exploit. A blue poster posted soon after saying a hot fix was going to be applied. It was and a client side patch issued soon after to plug the hole permanently.

    Blizzard are very clear about what addons can and can not do and if necessary will issue a hot fix and client side patch to stop them from working.

    They have a system in place where they can even ban an addon retroactively without needing either a hot fix or client side patch. All they need to do to kill this addon is to first ban it using that system
    (used at one stage to ban older versions of GearScore) then make the function that gives you coordinates in an instance protected in combat either with a hot fix or patch.

    That would kill AVR-E completely. If it can't get coordinates of your raid members or the boss in combat then it cant tell where you are to draw a circle around you and if it can't tellwhere the boss is it can't predict where the shit that spurts off the boss is going to land.

    So make a post in the Suggestions Forums. Kill AVR-E by disabling in-instance coordinates while in combat.

  7. #267

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Quote Originally Posted by pilnomi
    Maybe I'm missing something -- AVR doesn't show everyone else in raid what you're drawing, so they still have to go on the web and watch a video you produced or look at screenshots, which doesn't seem much different than looking up strats on worldofraids or w/e.... and AVRe doesn't seem any different than DBM which people already use.. To some extent, I think people will still make their own encounter diagrams, since you can get people thinking more clearly about it sometimes by showing things in 2d.. like that one flash game for the boss in BT where you had to control the constructs -- was that cheating? I don't think so.
    You are actually.

    AVR is the tool used to draw stuff on the screen. You can also share it with who ever in your Raid or Group who has it installed. You can set it to only show stuff from the guild leader/raid leader/group leader/raid assist etc to prevent the 13 year olds drawing penises everywhere.

    AVR-Encounters is a seperate addon that automatically draws encounter based diagrams on the screen.

    What most people aren't getting is that they are two seperate addons. Done by 2 different authors.

    The ire directed towards AVR-E should not be directed towards the author of AVR.

    Mods use the blizz API, meaning they don't do anything Blizzard hasn't approved of (because they can't!). Purists can continue to discuss how they wouldn't use this mod, but they shouldn't call it cheating (hand-holding, being carryed, coddled, etc are all fair terms though).
    ^^ This.

    Functions in the API that Blizzard don't want us using they just simply protect. That way the Blizzard default UI can use them but third party addons can't

    That's all they need to do to kill AVR-E - make certain functions protected in combat and *boom* AVR-E is rendered useless.

  8. #268

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire
    I think this addon should be disabled and/or banned. If it were a tool to use to tell people where to stand without aggroing the boss and when in combat you shouldn't be able to use it, now THAT would indeed be nice.

    BUT!
    Behold a new tool to increase elitism!
    Why? Becouse now there is a easier way of learning bossfights then ever before, and this isn't a Blizzard standard addon, which means people (like my self) who will NEVER use this addon will learn the bosses slower (this doesn't mean I'm a bad player, it means that I drive the car and read the map at the same time, compared to driving and using a voice gps). If everyone used this thing, and every bossfight were so hard and had so much going on, like LK HC with Proffesor put and 3 drakes at the same time, then fine, you'll need the help. As it is now though, if I'm abit slower to learn then ppl using this addon I'll be a "OMFG, you bloody scrubb of a noob! Why the hell didn't you move out of the fire?!" becouse of the tolerance level of the playerbase.

    As if DMB and Blizzard Bossmod isn't enough, example:
    10 man normal Lich King, hard, eh? I were new to the fight and I use DBM, BlizzBossmod and omen in PvE. I'm tanking the adds as a paladin, flawlessly in p1, then in the transition I tank the rageing spirits, the tank who tanked LK in p1 also helps out, but he turns them towards the raid now and then, no real danger just bad play from him/her. So we enter p2 and I fuck up on Defile, there is some stuff going on with me being able to save ppl from valkyrs with HoJ and such, still had a raging spirit on me etc, I droped the defile in midle of the raid, well, imagen a big dark cloud killing everyone. Fine, was my first try in p2. Sec try, p1 and transition as smoth as before. This time some one else fuck up and ppl complaingin about me position the raging spirit wrong, ah you wanted them there asap? Didn't matter that the raid get silenced when I move them? KK I'll do that next try. and I did, I did the 3d try without bigg misstakes, but they though I were stupid so they let an other tank, tank who knew the fight and the offtanking... I were dps and gosh that tank were SO bad! After a wipe in p1 with him I were told to tank again and they stoped complaining about my tanking.
    Aight, you've read that, congratz! Now to my point. Imagen the senario above with them using the marking addon and I'm not, I'd do exactly the same learningpath as above but they would deman perfection from start. If I failed 1st try I'd be classefied as a very bad player, which I'm not, I would say I'm one of the better players on the server, on horde.

    This could create something even worse then GearScore IMO, the playerbase DEMAND epics, and with this addon a decent or even fairly bad player will get epics so easy, only fights which won't be "free" epics would be dpsfights with movement, here bad players would not manage couse they can't do awsome dps, nor move at the same time. Its a stupid addon which couldn't be in game. Don't take it personal Mr Creators of this addon, I bet you've done a very very nice jobb and you should be prised for how good you're at coding, but I still hate this addon :P
    First of all, l2English.

    Second of all, why would you come on here to bash your raid members? If you're not picking up on a fight, you need to pull yourself up and catch on or you're likely to be replaced. There's nothing more frustrating on progression fights than people who can't get basic concepts. It really sounds like your raid was disorganized and people wanted to be carried through. I think as a tank, you should've worked with the raidlead to make sure everyone understood the strategy and what repositioning those mobs in certain ways meant for the raid. If you couldn't speak up (preferably by whispering the lead instead of making a scene in vent), I'd have kicked or replaced you, too.

    Third of all, if you don't want to use it, don't use it. I don't plan to use it, but if it helps that one guy stand in fires less often, then fine. Once upon a time when I started raiding in BC, that's what DBM did for me. I personally feel that the extra visuals during combat would just cause clutter that I don't really need. I don't mind my little /range box telling me when someone else gets too close or watching out for puddles/fire when alerts and cast bars are going off. On the other hand, some people are very visual. I don't think they should be penalized because looking at a fight in a different way than I do makes more sense for them.

    If you're honestly interested in progression, you have to take into account that that means picking up mechanics fast and being to roll with them. It also means carrying your weight and doing what you can to gear up to be ready for new content. That might mean grinding out some gear so that you're prepared to actually contribute to your raid. That might mean taking a few minutes to watch a video of a progression encounter the day before you know your guild is going to try new content. If you're not capable of picking up on encounters quickly and being your best at all times, then don't raid with groups that want to push through content. Run with pugs, guilds that aren't on the leading edge, or people that want a more relaxed raiding environment. There isn't anything wrong with not being in a super high-maintenance raid group. They do get things done, but they're generally less fun. The group you roll with should match your playstyle. Phat lootz mean nothing if you didn't enjoy the process of getting them.

    The biggest point of contention on this issue seems to be the perceived difference this will make for "casuals." I'm sorry, but this addon still doesn't fix stupid. It's a crutch, but stupid is still stupid. If you don't like that pugs use crutches like gearscore and addons like this, don't raid with pugs. The pugs aren't going to down as many bosses as even casual guilds *solely* because of addons like this. Pugs are also going to be less fun and rewarding than running with a group that runs weekly or a group of friends.

    The best advice that I think anyone who doesn't like this gear should take to heart is: if you don't want this addon affecting your raiding, don't use it. I won't use it, but if it helps someone else be marginally more successful than they are now, then so be it.

  9. #269
    Dreadlord Styria's Avatar
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    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Prag
    Like he said...

    Proper usage...

    lol
    Nobody is stacked on the marks correctly ??? ???





    in fact it looks like they all tried to eat a frost breath ???
    Look up, see the buzzards circling?

  10. #270

    Re: AVR, Blue posts, MMO Report

    our sindragosa 25 hm firstkill with AVR support.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dshSAYiCZxc

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