Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Zodiak]

Good Idea and Bad Idea.

Good:

Less raiding to one character. If you wanna raid the entire week, this forces you to gear up and prepare other characters... mmm alts becoming nearly mains... I dig that.

10 mans becoming preparation and practice for the 25 mans to gear the whole raid/guild. I think were going with the attempts strategy of the hardcore guilds (lvling alts similar to their mains to get practices and not wasting attempts or in this case, bosses). I like it.

25 mans are NOT gonna die. they will become a more enjoyable experience overall.


Bad:

Balancing nightmare which will take weeks / months to get right. ( Hope beta gets it right.)

Those with only one player, are screwed. They might as well prepare to level another to keep their raiding experience intact.

[talrob]

As a 10 man strict raider....

F**KING GET IN!

[ketzil]

Anyone truly complaining is just arguing for arguing sake.

There is nothing wrong with this, This changes 0 for a Hard Core Guild (makes it easier now that you can still raid if your short on your 25 man HM)

Casuals that RAID WELL will love it as well.

Only people complaining are MMO-C Whiners/Babies, Bad casuals, and asshats who just argue so they can.

QFT

People really seem to dismiss hardmodes. The hardcore guilds are the only one who really utilize them when they are relevant to the "world/realm-firster" crowd. So really, expect the changes to be more natural than you think.

[berree]

I guess ill have a MAIN main and just a plain old main now lol

[Frozenbeef]

my face when i heard these changes

yeh...i wouldnt post pictures of yourself on the inteweb if i was you...0o

[Sirath]

I raid in a 25 man guild and we are currently sitting at 8/11 H in ICC. My views are a bit meh with a bit of Interesting.

Pros:

- Less complication in the loot pravado of we must run 10 mans as well as 25 per week because some BiS items drops in 10 man Heroic. Lets face it. I love 25 man raiding but I don't want to be hassled all the time with a 10 man raiding. Not that I don't enjoy the 10 mans I love that as well but it is better to focus on One.
- Altoholic love. I have a lot of a alts and I wish to be able to gear them up. This means I can easily make 10 man runs with alts and gain some good equipment on them with the added free time I will have per week. If you don't have or like alts well sux 2 be u!
- I love the fact we get more instances. I'm easily all for 5 bosses per raid with new scenery, style, features, and feel. Than 12 bosses of the same shit all week long.
- No more raid canceled for 25 man groups. For some reason a lot of players suddenly need to go on break or its vacation time like chrismas. Why cancel a raid when you can just make 10 mans and go.

Cons:

- Uniqueness is dying. Lets face it this began the moment we hit WoTLK. To me I hate how they made PvE stuff easily acquirable and less unique compared to PvP. When I wear my raiding gear I like to stand out a little. People recognize that this dude raids heroic instances and that is hard earned gear. I don't want people to just look like the guy next to me that simply grinded the badges for it. Give a player some Epeen so to speak >.>
- No fix for difficulty factor.

Suggestions:

- Reverse the gating system. Make it heroic available only to give the hardcore players an advantage over casuals. Giving them a chance to gain the lead and recognition they deserve. Then unlock normal mode by time. This means players will be able to catch up to the hardcore players.
- You made 10/25 man loot the same? Fine.. Make Normal vs Heroic Look different. I don't mean just recoloring I mean make it look a bit more badass. Best example is Teir 7 vs t7.5 and PvP gear. Lower teir looks meh, higher tear looks badass (some may argue but this is pure for example sake)

[Klypto]

I'd rather there remained some rewards for 25 man over some loot, but I can see this as beneficial to the game as a whole.


E.G., keeping the "Legendary Quest Items" in 25 man raids yet the loot remains similar throughout. There needs to be at least some motivation for 25 man content, besides a giant achievement for you. Idk, maybe achievement mounts will be confined to 25 mans but it still seems silly to me.

[Zearth]

So, I am waiting for raid bosses to be available for weeks. "Raids" having 5-6 bosses and 25man raids that have no real purpose anymore, The only updrage I'm getting is saying "heroic" and I should be in joy? I have to say that I'm not excited about any of this. Please let beta loose and let us decide..

[Seregon]

Yeah screw people who prefer the face passed epic feel of 25 man raids in favour of the slow, watered down 10man guilds@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly the only people here being selfish jerks are 10man guilds. With 10/25 lockouts you get your 10man raids to enjoy and 25man raids enjoyed by 25man guilds. This is just you guys being little selfish kids butthurt because you can have 264 level items like those mean old 25 man raiders.

Seriously, get a life you scum.

OK... I'm not sure whether you're actually trying to troll or are getting sincerely upset about this. 25 man raids will still be available to those who prefer them and to be honest, they will be more beneficial if you read the original post by Bibi.

[Deleted]

Boub, if you are reading this, can you please add Guild Leveling and Path of Titans on your OP? Their importance affects this change.

Thanks.

[zeralol]

this change will definetely kill wow.
as mentioned before every 25 hardcore raiding guild has 10 core players. they will go straight their way and leave the rest alone..
many players will get bored and im sure that a lot of inactive player wont come back to cataclysm after reading this change and much more active players will quit wow.

and to argue with "25 man will drop more items" is fucking stupid
youve more people to gear up, seriously. that does not make any sense.


the only reason to maintain a 25 man raidgroup will probably be a well placed ranking @ wowprogress.com - nothing else.

gratz blizzard - fucking retards!

[Twintop]

This is a really great idea for one reason: item level. Look at WotLK as an example: epic items between 200 and 284, but without the extra level of gear every content patch added by 10mans we'd probably be down somewhere around 245-251. It is much easier to create and tune encounters when there's a better known incoming gear level. Blizzard admitted that with 3.1 and the introduction of hard modes it screwed up their gear scaling plans...hopefully this will prevent that from happening again.

[Everafter]

If I ever got any doubts about buying Cata, I don't now.
I'm getting it. I can raid with my friends now, not my friends and 15 additional monkeys trained to tank, heal and dps - and not feel like I'm missing out on best stuff.

[Mokona]

I love it.
Just yesterday I was saying to a friend that 10-man and 25-man should drop the same loot and .. there it is. ^^
And the other changes even exceeded my expectations.

[Tangster]

Have some faith in Blizz, i know its hard to do but try. Every expac everyone says OMG WOW KILLER QQ about half the stuff that comes out. The casuals love this, the hardcores hate this. But i'm loving the fact that good quest rewards and heroics will actually matter.
No more ding 80, faceroll roics, Tank LF ICC

[Mosberg]

I raid both 10 and 25 man on 2 toons, sometimes a 3rd 10man, weekly and as nice as it will be to drop a few nights I still dont quite know how I feel about this. As far as saying 25man are "harder" then 10 mans, I dont quite agree with that either. You can have a handful of dps and a few healers and maybe even a tank die in a 25 man, if you lose more than 1 or 2 people in a 10 man, you will generally wipe (unless its in like the last 5% or so) Yea 25 mans are harder in spacing people out and range check, but thats why we have range checkers. And lets be real honest, is raiding anywhere near hard regardless of 10 or 25man? This is also gonna hurt things like VoA. Soon they might as well say "You've done a 25man raid of some sort this week, you cant raid anything else". But we will shall see how things pan out, maybe it will be worth it or maybe I will just have to scrap my 25mans as they are more of a headache (more people = more asshats)

[Babyrobot]

For people saying what am I gonna do the rest of the week- here is how it will go.

Guild Leader- We're focusing on 25 man Firelands this week and on Friday we will be doing 3 10 man Grim Batol's.

Next week- 25 man Grim Batol this week and 10 man Firelands on Friday/After main raid etc.

(Assuming Firelands and Grim Batol are part of the same progression Teir)

[sleekit]

mixed feelings about this

based on personal experiance of the current system:

i liked 10 man a lot (as a member of a 25 man raiding guild), it was a bit more laid back and social (lots of good laughs) and a good practice area for learning hands on with mechanics.

that said our RL did conive to take his "dream team" to 10s as much as possible every reset which put many noses out of joint..

i dunno guess it makes some kind of sense but personally i will miss the having the option of a more social and less serious 10 man reset existing parallel to the more serious 25 man one.

can't help feeling that in spite if how good an idea it might be i've still lost an option i used to enjoy greatly from the "what do i do ?" menu.

[Asmin]

25 = pointless G_G casualcraft

[wabun]

[blizzquote="Nethaera;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/24401856405/cataclysm-raid-progression-refinements/]Our hope is that players will be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today.[/blizzquote"]

bringing back something of the good old days here, thx blizz i love you for that.

finally i can say things like "i was slain by Ashkandi" again ^^