Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Xiphan]

I hate you all people who say this is a good change, it's all your fault, I fucking hate you.

I'm surprised by the amount of people that seem to have played Cataclysm already and are rather knowledgeable regarding the new 10man difficulty!

Gonna have to wait and see how this turns out I guess, but Blizzard have probably learned a lot from the past couple expansions. This seems like a good way of merging tbc with wotlk raid styles.

[Daxmort]

To this?

I just have to say: fuck yes.

About time they did this. Thank you, Blizzard. Thank you.

[DeathBoxz]

I honestly fail to see any reason behind this :/ driving away the hardcore is just gunna make this game dull and boring while at the same time giving people the chance to turn on heroic mode is pretty suckish :S....

i wish a raid like ulduar could be brought back as that raid was pretty much the best raid in the game .fullstop.

There idea isto string out the raid for aslong as possible. can be acheived like this .... ulduar final encounter was beaten months after realease ..

[JackBauerLOL]

One less intolerant person to deal with.

Yes that's right.

Those selfish 25man raiders! I can't believe they actually want an advantage to raiding 25mans!

Those 10 man raiders, totally not selfish at all and just nice guys. They just want to see all the content and get the best purples in easy, slow, watered down raids!



Seriously, the irony and arrogance of 10man raiders is blinding.

[kabshiel]

I expect that the more organized and hardcore guilds will still do 25-mans, just because it's the more efficient way to collect loot. Smaller guilds and PUGs will likely stick with 10-mans, because they'll be easier to organize. I really don't see a downside to this announcement.

[foxHeart]

•10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout. (What the Hell?? Seriously? How is this beneficial at all?)
•10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other. (Don't care.)
•10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items. (MOAR GOLD!? Since that's totally the reason people raid, amirite? Other then that, meh. There's still heroic modes for more appropriate loot.)
•Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel. (Prefer Ulduar's organic "hard mode switches", but this is tard-proof.)
•For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid. (Don't care.)

[pip989]

wtf?! :S how is this good?!

[Deleted]

you keep saying this....WHO CARES?

You (and everyone) will care, considering that it will be the main factor of Cataclysm. Especially when there ARE rewards related to Guild Leveling.

[Frozenbeef]

the most interresting quote in boubs post relating to my play style was

Cataclysm

[emni]

What the hell am I going to do for the rest of the week after 25 mans now.

I was refraining from posting, but your comment just made me realize one thing. Skilled people with limited amount of play-time might finally be able to be on par with the stereotypical "basement-dwellers" who have the time to play 24/7. This is something that was accomplished in PvP long time ago and PvE is finally catching up.

I'm looking forward to Cata more and more.

[Deleted]

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

To all the 25s will die people: With more loot they probably mean that a 10 player boss will drop 2 items, and a 25 player boss 6 or something along those lines, it'll be faster to gear up in 25s then 10s, but it'll be easier to get 10s together, brilliant in my opinion.

The only thing that I'm a bit worried about is if they will deliver more content for us then before, because otherwise it might lead to only playing the game twice a week, because theres nothing else to do.

[Imbashiethz]

The thing I hate is that the items from 10 man will have the same look & name as the item that drops in 25man. The thing I love is that since you only kill the boss once a week it will have a more epic feeling and will be more fun, also there will be more raids so who cares that you can't do 10man AND 25man of the same instance? Nice change!

[Nuronv]

Very pleased about these changes.

People raiding both 10 and 25 man version made a mockery of the system from the start

[shade3891]

Dungeon Difficulty and Rewards

* 10 and 25-player (Normal difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
* 10 and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.

I am screaming for a long time that they need to do this change! I never understood their reason for the current system, I am glad they change it !!

[Siorfin]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, I agree that doing the same bosses over and over on 10/25 can be pretty boring, but I also think a lot of that was the gating system which they want to keep? Northrend beasts, Lord Marrowgar were immensely boring by the time Anub arak or Putricide came out, and imo that was more the gating system than the 10/25 divide.

Talking about balancing 10man and 25 man difficulty is alot easier than actually doing it, maybe the additions to class tools will help because currently it's impossible. A fight like Blood Princes is alot "harder" use the term loosely on 10 man HC than 25 man also, as was Sarth 3d, based on certain mechanics and the fact 1 person messing up is more likely to wipe you here. On Sindragosa 25, 10 man heroic is lol, 25 man is much harder getting everyone to coordinate.

I'll reserve judgement on the 10/25 man balancing until we see it, but the idea of gating unless normal mode bosses are SIGNIFICANTLY harder than in Wotlk, or you can access heroic from the start, are heroic modes are as original as in Ulduar, is just going to bore everyone to death like ToC and to some extent the first 6 bosses of ICC normal.


Something else to think about, I really enjoyed doing both Ulduar 25 and Ulduar 10 each week, sure Ulduar 10 tailed off more quickly but there was still good entertainment value in doing both.

[schippie]

TBH im a casual raider atm busy with LK 25 normal ( ph3 ) and i love these changes. I dont get why 25 will be pointless they wil now finnalay be equal, strict 10 man guilds can now get the same loot as 25 man groups. Also this would mean for me that i dont have to raid anymore more then 4 days a weak. And also not that after the 25 man raid (19:30-23:00) a 10 man raid is gonna happen untill (1:30). So a bit more free time and a bit more a life i guess.

Anyways we will need to see how this wil work out personnaly i hope this wont change its a big change for everybody but in my opinion a good one.

[Slaman]

For people saying what am I gonna do the rest of the week- here is how it will go.

Guild Leader- We're focusing on 25 man Firelands this week and on Friday we will be doing 3 10 man Grim Batol's.

Next week- 25 man Grim Batol this week and 10 man Firelands on Friday/After main raid etc.

(Assuming Firelands and Grim Batol are part of the same progression Teir)

Except currently we barely have 10 people that want to do 10 man. A majority of people raid for 25 mans because that's what this game was about. In a lot of guilds, a lot of people are going to get completely left out of everything when 10 mans are the only option.

[Shiggity]

At first I thought it was a horrible change, but now I'm starting to warm up to it.

Mastering one class has become easy, now I have the chance to play all 3 roles in raiding every week, and still only raid like 3 days a week.

The idea of a main will be gone, you'll be able to have 3+ characters all in top gear and be able to experience the raid content from every perspective.

[Korv]

Simple facts :

1) 25 man raids >>>> 10 man raids in difficulty no matter what. It's simple maths. 10 people are much easier to coordinate and work together than 25.

Ok, so rewards the raid leader of a 25man raid better, why should 10man guilds/pugs not get the same loot because they didn't take more people to cock up?

2) Encounter complexity in 10 man will always be lower than that of a 25 man unless they dumb down the 25man content.

This makes no sense unless you know exactly how every Cata raid is going to be.

[Bourdjire]

Mixed feelings... Part of me finds this cool! Kind of helps me out. But the other half is saying "wtf!?" Strange but I guess we will see how it goes when it is released!!

p.s. I also like the smaller raids. It adds a bit of intimacy that 25's are hard to accomplish unless the guild has been around forever.