Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Tang]

why do you seem to think gold is important?

badges are important for 2 months when content is fresh

If you have 2 melee in your 10 man group and 8 melee in your 25 man group you have 4x better chance at getting an item that does drop compared to having 1 extra item to dole out


I really think 25s are going to be the faceroll and 10s will be the hard content with this set up. I don't see how else they could balance it

Why would your 25 man have 4 times as many melee as your 10 man when it's only 2.5x as large? Where did all the extra melee come from? There must be several other 10 mans who have 3-4 melee, and for them, they're going to get way better odds in 25 man than in 10 man.

[Dimka23]

First They Took out 40 Mans Now 25 lol It was a good game Good times

[sneaky7]

You can never balance raid difficulty between 10 man and 25 man for 1 simple reason...

In 25 mans you can constantly take the tank from full health to dead with big hits because you have 6-8 healers. In a 10 man you can't stress the tank so much without just running your 2-3 healers oom, or making it beyond their healing capacity.

The ballance can't be made indeed. But not for this "1 simple reason". Go read the news about healing system in Cata...

[zaneosak]

Pretty sure they just compared fast food to WoW, shit is getting serious!!!!

He did it first, I'm just following his model...

[Darkskeleton]

Finally hard mode 10 man players get rewarded for their hard work and won't have to have equivilent gear of 25 man normal mode players! This is a great change for my guild since we only have the people for 10 man, I hope that they stay true in making 10 man normal and hard mode roughly as hard as 25 player mode so that it doesnt become pointless to do 25 player mode but I'm glad that theres a reason to do 10 mans when you could do 25 player mode instead.

Dark approves! ^^

[Vanilla]

I'm sorry.

What blizzard is doing now are the same exact idea's i shared and believed in when WOTLK was in beta and people were talking about 10 man raiding guilds and how to make them on par to 25 man loot. As were many others.

1) You get more gold in 25
2) You get more quantity of loot in 25
3) You get more badges

Is this not enough for you?

Just a BIG NO !

[Conchur]

This is just plain dumb, Blizz should go back to designing seperate 10 and 25 man content with appropriate gear drops in each. Unless the increased number of items per boss in 25 mans is way more than 2.5 times that of 10 mans, which I doubt, 25 mans will be pointless unless they stick in some cool 25 man achievement rewards which again I doubt.

So all in all 25 man raids will be gone, considering quitting after 5 years now

[Astarion45]

Finally hard mode 10 man players get rewarded for their hard work and won't have to have equivilent gear of 25 man normal mode players! This is a great change for my guild since we only have the people for 10 man, I hope that they stay true in making 10 man normal and hard mode roughly as hard as 25 player mode so that it doesnt become pointless to do 25 player mode but I'm glad that theres a reason to do 10 mans when you could do 25 player mode instead.

Dark approves! ^^

Who refers themselves in the 3rd person on forums... go away.

[Baervar]

How will they balance 10 mans to be about as difficult as 25 mans? They have to take into consideration missing some buffs in some 10 mans which can hurt dps quite a lot. Unless they give more buffs to more classes which fucks over hybrids in 25 mans since progression guilds will just go with a 10 man party worth of raidbuffs then just fill in all other spots with pure-dps classes (+healers).

Otherwise if they can keep the ammount of new/good content going i don't mind that much. Sure i'll remember with nostalgia they days where i had to work for activating a HM through some neat/witty mechanic in Ulduar, but meh. It's a constantly simplifying world it seems.

[soradakey]

Pretty sure they just compared fast food to WoW, shit is getting serious!!!!

Ok how about this. Someone getting paid $12 an hour getting paid $10 an hour for the same amount of work.

Now please find some insult about my comment instead of a valid point why I am wrong.

[diemor]

Pretty sure they just compared fast food to WoW, shit is getting serious!!!!

I lol'd

[Deleted]

Also, this is a troll comment, but it's probably partially true.

I gurantee most of the people that are /cheer are the ones whom aren't good enough to be in decent 25-man guilds. So if the 10-man difficulty is scaled higher in Cata, they probably aren't ever going to complete the new 10-mans either / get decent trinkets on ends bosses anyway, so nothing changes for them. LOL.

If 10-man's were reguarly as difficult as Heroic mode 10-mans today, then this is definitely true, they shouldn't be cheering. =P

One word, Clueless

[TabascoEU]

The ballance can't be made indeed. But not for this "1 simple reason". Go read the news about healing system in Cata...

I am quite aware that fights are meant to be less "bursty" however in terms of dps the tank will take from the mobs, 10 man can't run close to 25 man without running the healers oom....and tanking is all about reducing damage taken, and the requirement of a tank come from being a focal point for the majority of the damage, so the tanks will still be hit hard otherwise you might aswell have a rogue tanking. In 10mans the tank if left alone will always have a greater time to live. e.g. 15secs in 10 man 6 secs in 25 man. That will still be true, purely because you can't throw as much healing at the tank in 10man, ergo. No challenge to the tanks, the tanks can have the reactions of a dead fish and still survive. You gear differently for 10 mans, suddenly EH isn't important because you are receiving baby hits, so you gear for avoidance/efficiency, which again makes it less demanding.

[Jathro]

TBC: 10 and 25 man raids are different content with different loot.
WOTLK: 10 and 25 man raids are the same content with different loot.
Cataclysm: 10 and 25 man raids are the same content with the same loot.

You can see this is going down the shitter real fast

QFT

[Astarion45]

Ok how about this. Someone getting paid $12 an hour getting paid $10 an hour for the same amount of work.

Now please find some insult about my comment instead of a valid point why I am wrong.

It was just funny, you referenced fast food in regards to WoW, what is going on that little head of yours!

[Undercovercracker]

I hate using realism with WoW but shouldnt 10 mans be harder anyways. I mean if youre some amazing champion going into a dungeon there wouldnt be a button to adjust the difficulty. Therefore the less people you have to fight the big bad monster the harder it will be.

[Baervar]

TBC: 10 and 25 man raids are different content with different loot.
WOTLK: 10 and 25 man raids are the same content with different loot.
Cataclysm: 10 and 25 man raids are the same content with the same loot.

You can see this is going down the shitter real fast

I'll always regret not starting to play during TBC really

[Topples]

This is huge. Absolutely love it though! Although I really hope they make it to where 25 man doesn't completely go extinct. Mount rewards only found in 25 would be one way to help that but it may need a little more..

[soradakey]

That wasn't me earlier, when i said "Now please find some insult about my comment instead of a valid point why I am wrong." I was refering to what I said in defense of darkdragon or w/e his/her name was.

It was just funny, you referenced fast food in regards to WoW, what is going on that little head of yours!

[Tang]

So what do you like? Wendy's? What if their 5 pc chicken nugget turned into a 2 pc chicken nugger for the same price. Some people would still go there if they enjoy it.

If they still enjoy it then they still enjoy it. If the price goes up or the quantity goes down then I am going to be unhappy about it, but in the end I just decide whether its still worth going there. Taco Bell used to have fajita wraps, which were fucking awesome. Then one day, they got rid of them, and they've never had anything as good since then. They used to have Dr pepper (my favorite) and then they got rid of that for Code Red, and then they got rid of THAT for some other even crappier Mt Dew Product. My response? I don't write them nasty letters about how they suck. I just eat there a lot less.

People still like the game they just may have problems with changes and deal with it , doesnt mean they cant express their disapproval. At a glance thats how I feel , my raid time got cut in half UNLESS they make more raids, which is what I said in numerous posts before. It's all early n e ways.

Complaining about something is fine, up until the point where it's obvious that your complaints are not going to be listened to, and then it's just complaining for the sake of complaining. When it's obvious where the tend arrow is pointing (and to a lot of people it's pointing down) then it's time to put on some grown up pants and make a decision instead of whining impotently like a child.

Complaining about this change in philosophy is fine. Blizzard could still change their mind. Complaining about the overall trend of the game, talking about how Blizzard has just been screwing it up for years now, is stupid. If it's really been YEARS that you've been playing a game that doesn't give you joy, then it's possible that Blizzard is wrong, but it's a GUARANTEE that you are stupid.