Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[evilgnomey]

The problem is no incentive to do 25s...

more people will get loot, possibly more guild currency to spend? guild achievements, maybe special mounts that only drop in 25 mans?

you have NO idea what they have planned... no one does.

[TabascoEU]

This might be not true. The tank will take less damage per second in 10-mans, but there are also less healers to heal him. If they are not good enough, his hp will drop down to 0 and he will die. With the new model, it is easier to ballance the difficulty of healing in 10-mans and 25-mans.
However, i still think that the overall difficulty can't be matched.

Lets go with a single 'main' tank fight which there will still be some of they are quite common.

The model for 25 mans, is you can have 2+ people 100% focused on the tank, with another 4+ able to help/assist.
The model for 10 mans, is you can perhaps have 1 person 100% focused on the tank, with another 1-2 able to assist.

Yet the tank has identical gear. In the 25 man the healers have more guaranteed buffs/regens. In the 25 man the raid is more likely to have more tank saving cooldowns, think guardian spirit/palas/pain suppresion etc.

So we can 100% guarantee the tank will not even receive comparable damage. So the requirements for the tank to be quick on reactions for a last stand/shield wall/blocks/barkskin etc. etc. isn't there. They literally just have to put the gear on, hold aggro, move the boss occasionally, and attend. It is so bad for tanking and the excitement/joy that comes from tanking a hard fight.

Basically as you say, the only way a tank should die in 10 man is .... sleepy healers or OOM healers.

in 25 man there can be so many more ways.

[Luls]

I'm reminded of a post on the MLG forums not to long ago about how game company's basically hypnotize(for lack of a better word) their consumers. IfI come across it again I will post the link.

Hypnosis only works if you allow it to

[Zogrim]

Clearly. You know what all this sounds like?

It sounds like the people who have a ton of time to raid are afraid of this change, because it threatens their ability to obtain loot quickly, and be unique in wearing said loot (or more unique) now more than ever with this change in mind.

Sucks for you guys.

that's the point. People who like to put much effort and time into the game just won't be able to do so in cataclysm.
Hello World of Casualcraft.

[Tacculan]

I like the idea of making one raid lockout and similar loot between 10 and 25 modes, but like other people have said, it completely kills the idea of 25s... there is now no point in doing 25s except for fun if you can even get 24 other people to join a raid with you. My proposal is that there should be more levels of difficulty, rather than just two. If you have 3 or 4 different difficulties and different item levels for the same raid, it can appeal to every level of player. The casual raiders can stick with the normal difficulty and possibly go to higher difficulties. If they can't, they are able to stick with the item level that their ability deserves. As their skills increase, they can move on and get better gear. The highest level of the raid would be so hard that even the best players would have trouble with them. They can still progress and have fun without being considered equal to casuals no matter their level of skill or effort, so the game can cater to all types of players, not just casual.

[Calaba]

Lol all the QQ.

Look, we know why they're doing this; it's to stop 25man guilds farming the 10mans for emblems and extra loot, as well as using 25man gear to outgear these 10man instances. Yes, it'll go live. No, it won't kill off 25man guilds, as the new guild talents system will prevent this; it'll most likely be better to have a guild that can do 25man stuff than 10man stuff.

End of.

[troxan]

this is a great change tbh (if you don't play wow)

lol'd 8)

[Arcticwolf]

Blizzard is turning 10/25 man lockdown into one.JUST GREAT Iam working hard and anything isnt better after some time with my gf by raiding. In Cataclysm we will be raiding 1 day in week? Do you mean this serious? Okey if you do this prepare to create minimally 5 long and hardcore raids cause if you create any 2 stupid raids with 1 lock each. I think maybe 50% of all people will stop playing. Everybody was anger from Normal/heroic lockdown and now this.What next? Planes,F1 racing or Dung+raid same lockdown?

[Darkmiget]

Who cares about gold with the gold inflation in wotlk ? Everyone and their mother is sitting at 10k+ gold. OoOOO 50 gold per boss some major changes right there, totaly worth buying cata specificly for that reason.

How will you gear up faster in 25mans when there are more players to gear up unless they make the drop difference HUGE

You get more badges...a lot of you people are not thinking outside the box or looking in between the lines...

Also EVERYONE is applying this new raid rule to already made raids....you can't take something they plan to do and apply it to something they already have done...what's not to say they will remove aspect to new raids such as *easier defile control* or that sort of thing?

[Epicadin]

more people will get loot, possibly more guild currency to spend? guild achievements, maybe special mounts that only drop in 25 mans?

you have NO idea what they have planned... no one does.

More people will be in the raid, so the loot, like now, will be proportional to the amount of people in the raid (2 pieces in 10 = 5 pieces in 25) and I like the way you added "possibly". We only know what they have said, and people are reacting to such...

Blizzard better fix this fast before 25s become obsolete!!

[skaarrj]

The problem is no incentive to do 25s...

Yes there is.

More loot.
More Gold
More badges so you will get loot quicker.

Why is this not enough?

[Luls]

More people will be in the raid, so the loot, like now, will be proportional to the amount of people in the raid (2 pieces in 10 = 5 pieces in 25) and I like the way you added "possibly". We only know what they have said, and people are reacting to such...

Blizzard better fix this fast before 25s become obsolete!!

Refresh the first page and you will see that they haven't decided on the number of drops yet.

[Nielah]

Lets see if we can reach 100 pages of clusterwhine tonight!

[valafard]

10 uniclass pug raid > 15 guild roster raid > 33 guild roster raid

[soradakey]

As to the people wondering why people bitch and complain then still play for years and years.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html
OT: I think it could be a complete disaster but you never know, it could turn out to be decent.

[Zweistein]

Lol all the QQ.

Look, we know why they're doing this; it's to stop 25man guilds farming the 10mans for emblems and extra loot, as well as using 25man gear to outgear these 10man instances. Yes, it'll go live. No, it won't kill off 25man guilds, as the new guild talents system will prevent this; it'll most likely be better to have a guild that can do 25man stuff than 10man stuff.

End of.

you do realize this is how its been ever since? the only difference now is blizz stoped creating any 10 man content at all and instead did that dull 10-men version thing of the 25-men content? and now, to take it further (instead of, say, going back and creating seperate, real 10-men content again) they make 25-men-raids worthless. grats lol thats awesome (if you don't play the game)

[Smolderthorn]

Yes there is.

More loot.
More Gold
More badges so you will get loot quicker.

Why is this not enough?

Gold is not even a concern.

[skaarrj]

Gold is not even a concern.

Maybe not to you.

[Sheswithme]

Making 25 man raiding pointless one step at a time?

Exactly. Ive already said im done for cataclysm but this is just sad. We have so many AWFUL 10 player guilds on our server that attempt to boast the largest epeens around. (Lol Boulderfist-US). In fact 90% of the guilds on our server cant progress in 25 player content for one simple reason.

The raid leaders screwed it up. Raid comp, caused/promoted drama, poor loot decisions and people just leave after crap like that and join awful guilds that are bound to have the same issues.

Btw does this mean I can farm the new shadowmourne equiv in 10 player content? /laugh.

[sneaky7]

Basically as you say, the only way a tank should die in 10 man is .... sleepy healers or OOM healers.

in 25 man there can be so many more ways.

OOM healers or unskilled healers will be a more likely cause of a wipe in Cata than they are nowdays. And since the burst on tanks is removed, the "fast reaction to pop a Last Stand within 1 second after suddenly getting under 10%" will no longer work. The damage that tanks take will be scaled with the amount of healing they are supposed to recieve in 10 or 25. Thus, they will still need to pop their cooldowns for better damage reduction. If once in a period of time the boss begins to deal 3 times more damage than he normally does, that will be the time to pop a cooldown, no matter if it is 10 or 25.
But honestly, I still admit that in 25 man tanking will probably be more interesting and difficult. I am just saying that you are making this more dramatic than it actually is.